Presentation/Shooting from a Vehicle...

[The Annoyed Man]

I've pocket carried both a 642 and a P3AT. Not the ideal solution, but it works in a pinch. But, I think it would be almost impossible to get the P3AT drawn from a sitting position as it rides to far down inside my pocket. OTH, the grip of the 642 is very near the top of the pocket, and I could probably get it out from a sitting position. I've never tried it to make sure. But for me, while driving, the seatbelt is the least of my problems. I am overweight, and I am left handed. Getting to my pistol, even IWB, involves me leaning away from the door so that I can get to the gun. It's an issue I'm going to have to address.

Someone should start a separate thread on this.

This would make an excellent subject to discuss (presentation/shooting from a vehicle).

Never let it be said that I turned down a good suggestion from my friend Flint!

The first thing that occurs to me is to ask if there are any tactical training courses/ranges available to regular joes like me that allow a shooter to present and shoot from a stationary car? I've seen lots of pictures of ranges where people shoot at an old car hulk, but never any pictures of ranges where shooters can shoot from a car. Other questions would include concerns with internal obstructions (steering wheels, gear shifters, rear-view mirrors, etc.) and external obstructions (window glass, door mounted mirrors) which are particular to motor vehicles. I might also be concerned about the effects of containing a pistol shot within the close confines of a vehicle. It can be painfully loud on a range without ear protection, but inside a car it might well be so deafening as to compromise your ability to take in information and reassess after firing. Of course, all of this pre-supposes that simple evasion was not possible.

Let the discussion begin.

[carlson1]

I personally would not want a compensated barrel in a situation like this either.

[seamusTX]

... if there are any tactical training courses/ranges available to regular joes like me

If a "regular joe" can afford a couple of grand, such training is available:

http://www.google.com/search?q=tactical ... g+shooting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can simulate many aspects of this situation with an airsoft gun in your garage, at far less cost.

I had the notion of asking if the owner of a junk yard would let me actually shoot from an old wreck, but more likely he would call the cops.

- Jim

[yerasimos]

USSA THG 212

[flintknapper]

Other questions would include concerns with internal obstructions (steering wheels, gear shifters, rear-view mirrors, etc.) and external obstructions (window glass, door mounted mirrors) which are particular to motor vehicles.

All can be considerations...and should be looked at they relate to your particular vehicle. Steering wheels (for right handed shooters addressing a threat on the drivers side) can become an obstacle and even cause an unintended discharge. If circumstance permits, I like to trace the outline of the steering wheel (come over the top of it) to avoid hitting it. OTOH, I can think of situations where I would glady (cover/sweep) myself if a "real life" threat dictated and time was short. I would never "practice" that way however. You can imagine that a bullet in the upper thigh (femoral artery)....would tend to ruin your day.

I might also be concerned about the effects of containing a pistol shot within the close confines of a vehicle.

In terms of "splatter" you are in little danger, although there can be enough glass propelled back at you to injure your eyes. Side windows are not laminated and break into a zillion small pieces (tempered glass), so they are only a concern on the first shot (outward). If a BG breaks the window (inward) you WILL have a lap full of glass, but generally there will be no shards. This not true of windshields though.

It can be painfully loud on a range without ear protection, but inside a car it might well be so deafening as to compromise your ability to take in information and reassess after firing.

After firing, yes. Some weapons are louder than others, your vehicle, the direction of aim, window up/window down all come into play. Clearly, a weapon fired from within a vehicle will tend to "contain" the report. So your hearing "can" be compromised thereafter.

During the incident...(in times of adrenal stress) you may experience "audio exclusion" to some degree or another. "Tachi Psychi" is another phenomenon that is possible.

Those who have access to a good IDPA range can actually practice certain shooting/presentation techniques from a vehicle, but be advised: All techniques should be practiced slowly...and under the supervision of someone who has experience in this area. There are lots of Do's and Dont's and safety concerns.

You will also need to apply/discard/modify these techniques as they are applicable to YOUR vehicle, physical constraints and mode of carry. What worked fine out of Joe Bob's F-250 Super Duty....might not be possible from your compact car.

[seamusTX]

To add a bit more complexity, don't assume that an assailant will be coming from the front left.

The classic smash-and-grab robbery involves breaking the front passenger-side window. This method has also been used in carjackings and kidnappings.

A cold-blooded attacker has a better chance of doing you harm from the rear, and that makes defense much more difficult.

- Jim

[Excaliber]

I personally would not want a compensated barrel in a situation like this either.

Good point.

With a compensated barrel the combustion gases will be directed upward in a ferociously powerful stream. When that happens inside the car, it usually shreds the headliner and it starts "snowing" pieces all over you. This is not a performance enhancer for follow up shots.

[kalipsocs]

I actually thought about this one day while stuck in thanksgiving traffic from Dallas to San Marcos. It was dark and traffic was stand still, so I practiced (just pulling it out enough to feel it come free not actually DRAW it!) ways to draw from a seated position as I wear my IWB at about 3:30-4 position and it fits snugly in the nook of my bucket seats. I discovered that I have to lean forward somewhere between 15-30 degrees just to be able to break the tension as it is higher when the holster is pressed against me (MTAC holster). Needless to say, inconvenient and slow were the words that come to mind. So I have made it a point to just try and be aware of my surroundings while at a stand still so if someone were trying to get the drop on me I might be just the slightest bit quicker. Either that or buy a High Point to leave in the car. Say what you will about the questionable reliability (ours have been 100%) but having an accessible not so trusty firearm is better than having nothing in your hand if a BG is quicker than you can draw. But hey, my opinion and a 1.50 will get you a cup of coffee

[flintknapper]

To add a bit more complexity, [color=#FF]don't assume that an assailant will be coming from the front left. [/color]
The classic smash-and-grab robbery involves breaking the front passenger-side window. This method has also been used in carjackings and kidnappings.

A cold-blooded attacker has a better chance of doing you harm [color=#FF]from the rear, and that makes defense much more difficult.[/color]
- Jim

Absolutely! Great point.

An attack can (and probably will) come from an unexpected angle if the BG has any experience at all.


Shooting to the rear (or straight forward) makes things extremely difficult. It is even possible to need to shoot through your own windshield (threat from the front), or to reposition yourself to shoot to the rear. A little experimentation will show you where your personal "stall point" is when aiming to the rear of your vehicle (out the window). This will differ for lefty's than for right handed shooters.

There are volumes that can be written/discussed about this subject. That is why I wanted someone to start a thread. Most of us do not have access to a vehicle or a place that we can shoot out of....but even "talking about it" is beneficial to those who will never have a chance to practice it.

I am fortunate to have a place to practice whatever (and whenever) I want. I have always thought that "fighting from a vehicle" deserved a good look, so I do this fairly often. It's an eye opener.

[flintknapper]

I personally would not want a compensated barrel in a situation like this either.

Good point.

With a compensated barrel the combustion gases will be directed upward in a ferociously powerful stream. When that happens inside the car, it usually shreds the headliner and it starts "snowing" pieces all over you. This is not a performance enhancer for follow up shots.

Not for those of us in the South anyway!

I can honestly say...I have never practiced anything tactical in the snow.

[Bart]

A dummy gun or airsoft is good for practice. You can do all kinds of scenarios with buddies if you have somewhere private. If you have enough land to shoot and a college buddy gets a new car then you run shooting scenarios in his old car. Hyperthetically speaking.

[Excaliber]

I personally would not want a compensated barrel in a situation like this either.

Good point.

With a compensated barrel the combustion gases will be directed upward in a ferociously powerful stream. When that happens inside the car, it usually shreds the headliner and it starts "snowing" pieces all over you. This is not a performance enhancer for follow up shots.

Not for those of us in the South anyway!

I can honestly say...I have never practiced anything tactical in the snow.

Then it would be good to avoid firing a compensated barrel from inside your vehicles.

[flintknapper]

Then it would be good to avoid firing a compensated barrel from inside your vehicles.

Got that covered.

I do not own any handgun with a compensator on it (too many downsides to them IMO).

[seamusTX]

Real snowfall is no big deal. Burning synthetic fabric in an enclosed space is another story.

- Jim

[flintknapper]

Real snowfall is no big deal. Burning synthetic fabric in an enclosed space is another story.

- Jim

Either way.

Real snow, burning fabric, synthetic snowflakes on fire, whatever......



Flint doesn't own a compensated pistol...so its not an issue.