New to forum & carry

[quoheleth]

Hi, all. I've been a registered lurker for quite some time now, after a friend suggested I join up here. After several years of arguing, negotiations, begging, bribery, chicanery, jewelry and logic, the mrs. is allowing me to take the CHL class this coming weekend. I've saved my nickels, so assuming I pass the class, I'll have the paperwork in the mail early next week.

As I prepare for the day my plastic arrives in the mail (hopefully by July 4), I'm pondering my options for carry.

I'm a parish pastor. Weekday wear is usually business - slacks, shirt, tie - shading toward business casual (polo & slacks) in summer. I'm usually the only one in the office these days, so I could simply keep it in my briefcase or desk drawer, keeping it handy in a hollow book when answering the (locked) door, etc. Sundays are suit days with full cleric vestments during the worship service. I can see a good tuckable IWB holster as a viable option M-F and Saturdays, but on Sundays, that will be difficult; to be more accurate, God forbid I should need a weapon on a Sunday, the layers (alb w/cincture ("rope belt") over slacks & tucked-in shirt - see http://www.autom.com/autom/Apparel_3044 ... 124287.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for a visual) will prevent any kind of IWB accessability. Yes; this is what I wear and it is not negotiable on Sundays. This leaves pocket carry, as the slash pockets of the alb allow pant pocket access.

Which brings me to a pair of questions.
1) For the time being, I'm going to use either my S&W MP9 or my Ruger SP101 (3") for my carry weapon. Both will have to be tucked, IWB. Do you have any thoughts on which will be better (define "better" however you want) for regular carry?
2) I'm saving toward a pocket pistol, something that will drop into the slacks pocket (w/holster, of course) that will be discreet but quick-to-hand on a Sunday or a late night meeting. The problem is that the affordable pocket pistols - KelTek, LCP - feel like a deck of cards to me. They're just not comfortable to hold. Kel-Tek's P9 and P11 are much more comfortable than the P3, but are more noticable, too. I really like the compact XD and MP pistols, the Bersa Thunder & Thunder CC as well as Taurus' MilPro - they feel good and make me want to use them. Iguess this question is in the area of comfort ("feel") vs. concealability - how much do you give up on one side of the ledger for the sake of the other side?

Maybe I need a 3rd question, too. Given my Sunday attire, would you concur that pocket carry is the best bet? If so, I need to go with small autoloader. Or, if another carry option is viable (ankle?) that would permit a larger framed weapon, I would be very open to that. I know ankle carry isn't the best, but I would have a better chance - I think - of diving for my ankle than digging through layers to an IWB carried pistol.

I hope this is making sense. The M-F thing isn't such a big deal, but Sunday has got me a bit ruffled. If any other clergymen who wear vestments and carry on Sundays are present, I would love to hear from you especially.

Sincerely,
Q

[longtooth]

Welcome aboard & glad you started posting.
No vestments but if ankle carry is comfortable enough for you a small 9mm or J-frame .38ps are good ankle guns & you are not under armed either. Since you have been lurking for a WHILE then you know there are numerous pastors here that carry & most of us on Sunday too.
Glad to have you.
LT

[quoheleth]

Hi, Longtooth. Good to "see" you again. We spoke on the phone last fall - remember? - after a lengthy clergy carry thread on THR.

Decided it was time to jump in on this board, too. Thanks, all, for your wisdom shared here.

Q

[longtooth]

I remember. Appreciate the last "Just Because" PM too.
You are in good company here. Hope you stick closer to home than THR. OK to visit there but there aint no place like home.

[UpTheIrons]

Given my Sunday attire, would you concur that pocket carry is the best bet? If so, I need to go with small autoloader. Or, if another carry option is viable (ankle?) that would permit a larger framed weapon, I would be very open to that. I know ankle carry isn't the best, but I would have a better chance - I think - of diving for my ankle than digging through layers to an IWB carried pistol.

Welcome (officially) to the forum! It's good to hear from another clergyman mulling the same questions I am. I'm waiting for my plastic now, too, and pondering Sunday AM more than M-F. Even though I haven't tried it yet, I would recommend against pocket carry with an alb. When vested, I can't get my monkey hands into my pockets on a good day, much less in a hurry or state of stress. As long as you don't have real high steps in the chancel, aren't kneeling where people can see up your pants leg (which really shouldn't be an issue), or doing too much "chancel prancing" you should be fine with ankle carry.

That seems to be my main option for Sunday, but I wear boots, so I've got to figure that out, too. I've got a Taurus PT-145, but it's a shade too big for ankle carry, especially in boots, so I'm thinking of a S&W 442 or something like it for that purpose. Just like any other shooting practice, if you go with ankle carry, practice dropping to one knee and sweeping those yards of fabric out of the way -- the billowing cloth should distract the BG long enough to neutralize the threat.

For M-F carry, I'll likely go with IWB, probably the CrossBreed Supertuck or some such, but I'm also seriously considering the Kangaroo shoulder holster, seen here: http://www.kangarooind.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and reviewed by GunBlast here: http://www.gunblast.com/Kangaroo.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I'm 6'2" and 220#, so my clerical shirts (a mix of Almy, Autom and Friar Tuck. Yeah, I know, I can't decide, and I HATE ties - haven't worn one in 5 years out here!) tend to blouse out a bit and I think they'll hide the Kangaroo quite well. Another option is the 5.11 holster shirt: http://www.511tactical.com/Shop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which has been reviewed favorably on this forum.

I'm the only one in the office usually, too, at a little church in the country. Every now and again, I get a questionable individual that stops by, so its nice to have the comfort of a CCW since help is only minutes away.

Hope these ramblings help a little!

[OverEasy]

Man! With that alb thing I would go for a sword! Seriously, that looks like a great 'cover garment' a little tailoring should provide you with access to a belt holster. ( front or side seam held together by velcro). Or a hidden internal pocket in the garment itself. You could probably carry a pair of full size 1911s in that thing and nobody would notice. One on each side would balance you up and make it hang straight too.

Welcome aboard!
I'm glad to see the shepards serious about protecting the the flock and themselves too for that matter.
Regards, OE

[quoheleth]

Seriously, that looks like a great 'cover garment' a little tailoring should provide you with access to a belt holster. ( front or side seam held together by velcro). Or a hidden internal pocket in the garment itself.

Well, you would think so, wouldn't you? My schedule, though, is arrive at church, 5am. People start arriving @7:15. Early service is at 8am, so I will "robe up" 10 minutes before. Early service ends @ 9, I quickly dis-robe and head down the hall to teach adult Bible class. Late service is at 10:45. To carry OWB for ease of grasp from under the alb is great during service, but then I gotta handle the weapon and transfer to another carry position for Bible class, before and after services. To me, the more the weapon is handled, the more likely it is to be spotted (Pastor, can I come in for a minte...whoah, what's that???), forgotten in my office, or - God forbid - an AD somehow happens. Not to mention, with that much work, the silent danger is to get frustrated with the thing and just quit carrying.

The robe is a light cotton/poplin - think the material a heavy Oxford dress shirt is made of - so an inner pocket really won't support a pistol's weight very well. To add insult to injury, my robe's opening is to my right side; I'm a lefty, so I can't do a tucked cross-draw. Hmmm...maybe I should get an alb made of Kevlar...that would buy some time...call it the BatAlb, SuperAlb, or something like that.

I have small hands. For me to dip my hands through the slash openings of the alb to pants pockets really isn't an issue.

I'm wrestling with carry comfort & ease (small size weapon, i.e. KT or LCP) vs. shooting comfort & ease (j-frame, compact XD, MP, or MilPro). And, I don't wear boots - I didn't think about what would happen when I kneel at the altar for the Sacrament. Peek-a-boo!

Uptheirons...Seguin...you're not Lutheran by any chance, are you? A buddy and former classmate of mine is in your neck of the woods...And by the way, Autom is having a sale on their shirts right now - $14.99, if their ad is right.

Gotta run...thanks all for the words of welcome & advice...

Q

[OverEasy]

Q,
From your description of the situation, looks like front pocket carry would be the winner, just put it there and leave it.
If you go for a j-frame, a 642 or 442(enclosed hammer) would cut down on the possibility of snagging on the alb during drawing.
SmartCarry is a great method, but the alb would prevent you from getting to it.
Regards, OE

[UpTheIrons]

Uptheirons...Seguin...you're not Lutheran by any chance, are you? A buddy and former classmate of mine is in your neck of the woods...And by the way, Autom is having a sale on their shirts right now - $14.99, if their ad is right.

Oops! I've been outed!

I almost suggested the pocket carry with the alb, but mine only has a slash on the right (integrated pocket on the left), and something told me that you'd be the 1% that was a lefty. If you are good at snaking a hand in and out, go for it. A good pocket holster should make that option ideal.

(Begin thread hijack.)
Thanks for the tip about Autom - I'll check it out!
(Here ends the thread hijack.)