One in the pipe?

[jdrudd]

Hello. I've been a lurker for quite some time. Still waiting on my plastic, been carrying around the house to get comfortable with it. I've read some of the older posts about carrying with a round in the chamber. I can completely understand the logic and reasoning behind this philosophy. However, I cannot bring myself to do this. I can't get over the fact that one acidental discharge would be one too many. BTW, I have a glock 27, no safety other than on the trigger. I might feel differently about it with a different gun, but for now, this is what I brought to the track. Suggestions, opinions on ways to overcome this concern. I will admit that in the time that I've been using the gun for recreational purposes and carrying around the house, I've never had the gun accidentally "dry fire".

[apostate]

Suggestions, opinions on ways to overcome this concern.

I can point at police officers who carry firearms with a round in the chamber, even while running and doing other physical activity. I know of no substantiated instance where a holstered gun fired without somebody touching it. However, you may or may not find that argument compelling. You know yourself best and have the most information on what will persuade you.

[jdh2580]

Welcome to the forum!

If you are not comfortable with the Glock and its safeties then you might want to look at other pistol options. Carrying in 'Condition 1' meaning ready to fire is the only way that you should consider carrying for real life self defense situations.
Become very familiar with the inner workings of you gun. Realize there are hundreds of thousands of LEO's and CHL's that carry everyday without a AD. Knowing you gun is the best defense in avioding any issues.

Many people say 'If you keep your booger hook off the trigger thingy, then it won't go bang'. That is the case more often than not. Remember in real life defensive situations you will not be able to call time out to rack your slide and prepare to shoot.

[tfrazier]

I've been carrying since 1987. Always one in the chamber, and these days, cocked-and-locked, since I've been converted into a 1911 nut (which means I went out and shot one, which is all you have to do to become a believer). But I echo those folks who've already answered, become familiar with your weapon, train, and do what is safest for you.

I recently saw a video of a few Israelis who can yank a 1911 without one 'in the pipe' out of their holster, rack the slide, and fire on target faster than some of our best military personnel can draw, flip the safety off, and fire on target, so the key to it all is training, knowledge, and skill.

[ninemm]

Perhaps it would help if you practiced carrying with a snap cap in the chamber. Then, you could experiment with a number of scenarios you have imagined might result in an accidental discharge.

This also might help:

http://anarchangel.blogspot.com/2006/04 ... afety.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[WEC]

However, I cannot bring myself to do this.

Ever since owning my first gun, as well as the years before while growing up and getting tutelage from my elders, I was always taught to treat any gun as if it were loaded. However, it always meant "more" when there was actually a round in the chamber. Before getting my CHL, and even before that, having a gun on my nightstand for home protection, I also thought that I could not bring myself to keeping a round in the chamber.

Since then, I've done a complete analysis of what is at stake. I thought long and hard about my philosophy about treating every gun as if it were loaded. Specifically, as if there was a round in the chamber at ALL times. With this level of thinking and awareness, it has made me feel more secure about actually having a round in the chamber. I wouldn't necessarily call it desensitizing as much as homogenizing. I always think every gun has that sense of urgency. This respect, believe it or not, has allowed me to be more comfortable with carrying in condition 1.

As always, the #1 safety is the one between your ears. Good luck!

[The Annoyed Man]

If you're carrying that Glock in a holster, then the trigger is covered and can't be pulled accidentally. They don't just go off by themselves. If you holster it properly, and you keep your booger hook off the bang switch, then there is almost zero possibility of an unintended discharge.

If you need to draw that smoke wagon, wasting a precious couple of seconds getting the slide racked before you can get the sights on target may result in getting you killed. Balanced against that, the odds of getting killed by carrying one in the pipe are pretty insignificant.

[flintknapper]

I've been carrying since 1987. Always one in the chamber, and these days, cocked-and-locked, since I've been converted into a 1911 nut (which means I went out and shot one, which is all you have to do to become a believer). But I echo those folks who've already answered, become familiar with your weapon, train, and do what is safest for you.

I recently saw a video of a few Israelis who can yank a 1911 without one 'in the pipe' out of their holster, rack the slide, and fire on target faster than some of our best military personnel can draw, flip the safety off, and fire on target, so the key to it all is training, knowledge, and skill.

Provided you have that arm/hand to use!

If anything were to happen to your weak side arm/hand prior to you being able to charge the weapon (as in an attack) then you may find yourself totally incapable of bringing it into battery. Yes, there are dozens of other ways to charge your weapon, but all of them will leave you seriously "behind the eight ball" in terms of time lost.

DO NOT carry your weapon uncharged. If you have a fear about it....GET OVER IT. Do what ever is necessary (change weapons, get training, do research, etc) to get beyond this unreasonable fear.

Seconds (sometimes fractions) "can" cost you your life. Be prepared! Use every advantage. Anything less... is to compromise your ability to defend yourself. A nephew of mine learned this the hard way a few days ago, we buried him today.

You get a bullet "up that spout" NOW! You'll have enough to think about... when dealing with a deadly threat, without worrying about getting your weapon (your lifeline) into operable condition.

Flint.

[ELB]

WEC pretty much nailed it. You think the gun is "safer" because it doesn't have round in the chamber. You mentally differentiate, perhaps almost subconsciously, between a "safe" gun and a "dangerous" gun. The problem is when you get the situation where there is a round in the chamber and you don't know it -- then you think it is "safe" when it is not. People rarely get shot accidently with loaded guns -- they get shot accidently with "unloaded" guns. I suspect you use the empty chamber as a crutch to make up for lack of confidence in your training and habits.

Ergo, you really need to treat the gun as if it were REALLY, ALWAYS loaded, period. Don't point it at important things, don't put your finger on the trigger unless you have decided to shoot, etc --- ALWAYS. Then you do not need to worry about whether it is "safe(r)" or not. It is always "safe" because YOU are always safe, regardless of whether "one is in the pipe" or not.

One of the problems with the usual shooting ranges is that they make you differentiate between the "safe" gun and the "dangerous" one. No holsters (usually), when changing targets step away from the gun, action open, etc etc. They instill (ultimately dangerous) habits -- they keep themselves safe while you are there shooting, but send you home with this false dichotomy learned. Go to a serious defensive training course (sorry, the CHL courses do not count) like John Farnam's Basic Defensive Handgun Course, or a similar one, and you wil learn a lot more about techniques for correctly handling a defensive pistol and how a hot range is safer than a cold range.

I have carried both Glocks and single-actions (specifically the Hi Power) and revolvers, and the principles are the same. Don't handle it unnecessarily, follow the four rules, get a QUALITY belt and QUALITY holster made for your particular gun, once that covers the trigger and holds the gun in place without safety straps and other gimmicks. Learn to grip the pistol with your trigger finger ALWAYS in the register position (on the frame well clear of the trigger guard) except you have consciously decided to shoot your target. When you are administratively handling your gun (e.g. loading, unloading, cleaning, holstering up for the day, etc) focus EXCLUSIVELY on what you are doing until the gun is either in your holster or in the safe. Don't let others interrupt. If you do get interrupted, make double-dang sure you haven't just skipped an important step in the procedure. Don't assume.

It is not rocket science, but it does require discipline and training. I highly recommend that as soon as possible you attend a serious defensive pistol class. I recommend Farnam because I have been to his classes, but there are others. Here is a link to my experience in his courses.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... nam#p83800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... f=8&t=7479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He usually comes to Victoria twice per year -- once in March, once in October, but check his website and see -- he also comes to Texas at other times as well. Hoffner is permanently based in Houston, and have heard good things about him. There are others, check the Advanced Training forum on this website.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

elb

p.s. and yes I think the "Israeli" twohanded draw-rack-the-slide business is foolish. Extra steps, no matter how fast they are, requires a hand and arm that might not be available when you need it.. etc...

[WEC]

People rarely get shot accidently with loaded guns -- they get shot accidently with "unloaded" guns. I suspect you use the empty chamber as a crutch to make up for lack of confidence in your training and habits.

Thanks, ELB. I was trying to put this into words, but you articulated it perfectly!

[Locksmith]

No longer valid

[dewayneward]

I had the same mental block as you have now. It does take time to get over it....but you need to. If you cant fire in 2 seconds, leave the gun at home because its not going to help you.

[Liberty]

Carrying without one in the pipe is almost the same as not carrying at all. The gun cannot go off all by itself while holstered, even unholstered something has to pull on the trigger to make it fire. A couple of folks have mentioned that following the 4 safety rules and not handling the unholstered loaded gun unnecessarily is good advice. There are two actions that have got Glock owners in trouble.
1 Holstering: If you holster a gun do it deliberately and carefully making sure that there is no clothing or holster parts that could snag the trigger.

2 Cleaning: Inspect the gun carefully be fore cleaning.Make absolutely sure the gun is completely unloaded before disasembly Glocks are particularly worth noting because the trigger must be pulled to disassemble the gun.

If you are uncomfortable carrying a gun because it doesn't have a safety, you might consider getting rid of the Glock and getting a gun that has a real safety. THere are lots of 1911s or DA/SA to choose from.

[frazzled]

Hello. I've been a lurker for quite some time. Still waiting on my plastic, been carrying around the house to get comfortable with it. I've read some of the older posts about carrying with a round in the chamber. I can completely understand the logic and reasoning behind this philosophy. However, I cannot bring myself to do this. I can't get over the fact that one acidental discharge would be one too many. BTW, I have a glock 27, no safety other than on the trigger. I might feel differently about it with a different gun, but for now, this is what I brought to the track. Suggestions, opinions on ways to overcome this concern. I will admit that in the time that I've been using the gun for recreational purposes and carrying around the house, I've never had the gun accidentally "dry fire".

Take people's opinions, but at the end of the day none of it is relevant (including mine). Do what you are comfortable with. Its better to have CHL with an empty barrel, that not be comfortable enough to have one at all. Just practice pulling and cocking quickly to where its muscle memory.

[Purplehood]

Hello. I've been a lurker for quite some time. Still waiting on my plastic, been carrying around the house to get comfortable with it. I've read some of the older posts about carrying with a round in the chamber. I can completely understand the logic and reasoning behind this philosophy. However, I cannot bring myself to do this. I can't get over the fact that one acidental discharge would be one too many. BTW, I have a glock 27, no safety other than on the trigger. I might feel differently about it with a different gun, but for now, this is what I brought to the track. Suggestions, opinions on ways to overcome this concern. I will admit that in the time that I've been using the gun for recreational purposes and carrying around the house, I've never had the gun accidentally "dry fire".

Did it 24/7 in Afghanistan (even in the John), with no mishaps. I continue to do it today. You will note that my carries normally include a Glock (though overseas it was a Beretta).