Parking in 30.06 posted lot

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TexasGunShooter
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Parking in 30.06 posted lot

#1

Post by TexasGunShooter »

Actually not specifically a Concealed Carry issue. Sorry for long post but please help.

My employer has proper 30.06 signs at the parking lot entrances.

If I want to go to the shooting range after work or otherwise have my gun available, do you think I can lock my gun in the trunk and then legally go on the company property? Is there any way to legally have a firearm in the car while parked in the lot?

Here are some thoughts for discussion:
Code states that a “license holder� commits an offense if he
1. carries a handgun on property AND
2. enters ( or remains on) the property with a concealed handgun

From the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws Q&A Section:

Q: If I drive to a shopping mall that does not permit handguns, will I be allowed to park in the parking lot and leave my gun in the car?
A: If the parking lot is not posted with the sign described above, handguns may be left in the cars. However, if it is posted in the parking lot, then you may not.

Q: If my handgun is on the seat beside me, am I still considered to be “carrying?�
A: Yes. The statute refers to carrying a gun “on or about� your person. Texas courts generally have considered this to include any gun within your reach, including one stored in your glove compartment or even in a passenger’s purse, if you can reach it without materially changing position.


Argument 1:
If the offense for 30.06 is specifically “carrying� where not allowed then the second Q&A seems to partially contradict the first. If I lock my handgun in my trunk before I get on the property then it does not look like I would be considered carrying as it is not within reach.

Argument 2:
The offense specifies “license holder� and the sign specifically addresses “trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun�. If I did not have a Concealed Carry permit, then does this offense apply to me?

Argument 3:
Do any of the vague "traveling" laws help with this?

Do you think any of these arguments would hold up? I really want to stay legal.
(It would really be ironic if Argument 2 is valid :evil: )

Any help or advice is appreciated.
TexasGunShooter

txinvestigator
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#2

Post by txinvestigator »

The bottom line. 30.06 applies to people carrying under authority of the CHL laws.

A gun locked in your trunk is not on or about your person; therefore, if you have a gun locked in your trunk you are not carrying under the CHL laws. In that case the 30.06 sign would not apply to you.
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Photoman
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#3

Post by Photoman »

So if the 30.06 signs are at the parking lot entrance, the prohibition includes the parking lot area and not just the building?
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Charles L. Cotton
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#4

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

Photoman wrote:So if the 30.06 signs are at the parking lot entrance, the prohibition includes the parking lot area and not just the building?
Yes, if they are at all entrances. Look at it this way; everything beyond the sign is off-limits.

Chas.
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#5

Post by Photoman »

Thanks Charles.

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#6

Post by TexasGunShooter »

Charles:

Do you agree with txinvestigator? If gun is locked away, parking is ok?

Thanks
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#7

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

TexasGunShooter wrote:Charles:

Do you agree with txinvestigator? If gun is locked away, parking is ok?

Thanks
Yes.

Chas.
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age_ranger
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#8

Post by age_ranger »

I thought under 30.06 that driveways, parking lots and sidewalk areas were not considered "the premesis". So now a business can restrict concealed carry in a parking lot? They'll do anything to try to prevent us from carrying, won't they? I imagine the signage requirements are the same for parking lots then?

txinvestigator
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#9

Post by txinvestigator »

age_ranger wrote:I thought under 30.06 that driveways, parking lots and sidewalk areas were not considered "the premesis". So now a business can restrict concealed carry in a parking lot? They'll do anything to try to prevent us from carrying, won't they? I imagine the signage requirements are the same for parking lots then?
Premises only excludes parking lots and the like for those specific places listed under Texas Penal Code 46.03 and 46.035.

A private business not listed under one of those two sections can prohibit concealed carry ANYWHERE.

Texas is big on private property rights. ;)
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TexasGunShooter
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#10

Post by TexasGunShooter »

Thank you guys very much for your responses.
Now I feel comfortable (and legal) shooting at the range and/or carrying right after work.

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#11

Post by GrillKing »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
TexasGunShooter wrote:Charles:

Do you agree with txinvestigator? If gun is locked away, parking is ok?

Thanks
Yes.

Chas.
So, under Texas law, can a person who can legally possess a handgun, carry a handgun in their vehicle at any time, as long as it is locked away, irregardless of whether or not they have a CHL, or irregardless of the 823 travel presumption? In other words is there a prohibition against carrying your unloaded handgun at all times in the trunk, assuming you aren't violating anyone's property rights (PC 30.05???) that the law defines?

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#12

Post by txinvestigator »

GrillKing wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
TexasGunShooter wrote:Charles:

Do you agree with txinvestigator? If gun is locked away, parking is ok?

Thanks
Yes.

Chas.
So, under Texas law, can a person who can legally possess a handgun, carry a handgun in their vehicle at any time, as long as it is locked away, irregardless of whether or not they have a CHL, or irregardless of the 823 travel presumption? In other words is there a prohibition against carrying your unloaded handgun at all times in the trunk, assuming you aren't violating anyone's property rights (PC 30.05???) that the law defines?
Be careful. Texas makes no distinction about "locked away" or unloaded.

The general law in Texas (no chl or other exemption considered) is that you cannot have a handgun on or about your person. "on your person" is easy. "About your person" has been held to mean any area within your immediate access, and INCLUDES the passenger compartment of vehicles.

Your trunk would not be "about your person" An unloaded gun in the glovebox IS.
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Photoman
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#13

Post by Photoman »

GrillKing,

I think there are Federal laws that provide for legal transport if the gun is in the trunk, unloaded, locked etc.

I'm not a lawyer so consult yours before trying this. Shoot...I can't even figure out all the CHL laws, much less the 20,000 gazillion Federal laws regarding the ownership of guns. :roll:
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