Supremes 5/4 on no-knock warrants, Alito breaks tie.

[AV8R]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/15/washi ... ei=5087%0A

Funny how many noises I heard last night after this ruling yesterday.

[Venus Pax]

That doesn't bode well for the law-abiding citizen.
I can, however, understand the LEO's desire for a surprise attack on a drug thug's quarters.

[The Marshal]

I declare sorry NYT bias in reporting here.

If they HAVE a warrant, and HAVE annouced their presence, WHY WHY WHY should they be REQUIRED to knock?

How in the world can SWAT teams take down a drug lab, if they require surprise and shock, but must first KNOCK on the front door?

Consider your source for the article.

~Bill

[Glockamolie]

Just how much drug equipment can be flushed down the toilet in 30 seconds?

I HATE no-knock warrants. Wanna know why? Please read these:

http://www.theagitator.com/archives/026002.php#026002

http://home.pacbell.net/rsdotson/source ... illing.htm

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38a2c2d96f80.htm

There are many more just like them. What is wrong with arresting these guys when they leave, and then using a search warrant for the home? Nobody stays home 24/7. Just my $.02.

How about this one?

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs. ... S/60323008

How would you feel if that were your Grandparents? I love this quote:

“Obviously, a mistake was made and it was regrettable,� he(Police Chief Darryl Whaley) said. “But, I stand by my officers. I think they acted properly.�

They storm the wrong house, but they acted properly?

[longtooth]

My thoughts exactly. I know that I have broken no law. My door comes down it can onle be one of 2 things. Hard entry home invasion or no knock wrong house. This is one I have thought through & made my decission. There are several of us that stand at the bridge just like our forefathers in 1775. I am one. Yep, if it happens here I will loose that gun fight as did our forefathers. I will hope the ones that come behind me will win the war for our grandchildren. Wish I could remember which one said, If there is to be war let it be in my day that my children might live in peace & safety.

[The Marshal]

Honestly, Brandon, would knocking, just before they flashbang 2 windows and knock your front door off its hinges make a bit of difference?

I am not contesting that raids can be extremely stupid, and negligent.
I AM contesting that it is a requirement to knock (note that it is not "& wait for a reasonable answer and walk away if they have one.")

This is merely a lame-o attempt at allowing defense lawyers an out.

Now, if the police do come thru my door, as in Granddad's case, they better have lawyers out the wazoo. Because negligence like that is unacceptable. And should be punished severely.

Better still would be what you suggested. Don't go in at all. I feel the risk is not worth the prize.

Funny that you bring that up. I was lying around yesterday afternoon, and I thought I would watch "DALLAS SWAT" on TV for giggles, having seen it once and thinking it was silly.

Lo and behold, they have a night assault on a single-family home.
They have been in this house previously, and since it took them 10 MINUTES to get in, all the evidence was flushed down the toilet.
Soooo, this time Delta Team flashbangs the snot out of the bathroom, while Bravo Team uses a heavy vehicle to rip off the burglar bars off the front door and window. Alpha assaults after B & D do their stuff.

Suprisingly, they find NOTHING. No BG's, no drugs, no illegal anything.
And then they casually talk about "Well, sometimes you get a 'dry hole'" with an implied "Sucks to be you." attitude.
I was speechless. I wanted to know, "What happened to the people and their property?" So I DO agree with you in spirit.
However, KNOCKING changes none of this, except in court.

~Bill

[PWK]

When I first heard about this, my reaction was similar to most of yours. However, after more consideration I have to agree with The Marshal. I am tired of BG's getting off on techs. That is what this case is really about. It is not saying that what the officers did was right or even OK, but why should the BG get off because of thier mistake.

[seamusTX]

Mrs. Casey and I had a serious discussion about this when the decision was announced. If someone breaks down the door, there will quite likely be fatalities.

We have an unusual house layout. We can see the front door from a window in another room. It would give us some room to maneuver and negotiate, if it was the police.

I hope nothing like this ever happens.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

... someone's gonna eat 16 rounds of hollowpoint.

#4 turkey shot here. :^{

- Jim

[TraCoun]

I declare sorry NYT bias in reporting here.
If they HAVE a warrant, and HAVE annouced their presence, WHY WHY WHY should they be REQUIRED to knock?
How in the world can SWAT teams take down a drug lab, if they require surprise and shock, but must first KNOCK on the front door?
Consider your source for the article.
~Bill

Question 1 - How does Joe Average distinguish between a no-knock entry by Police and a no-knock entry by a BG?

Question 2 - How does Joe Average distinguish between a no-knock entry by Police and a no-knock entry by a BG dressed in fake police gear, shouting "Police" and waving a piece of paper he claims is a warrant?

Question 3 - How much time does Joe Average have to decide whether the no-knock entry is from police or a BG?

Question 4 - Do you think the average BG will abide by Joe Average's request to stop his activity while Joe Average figures out what's going on?

Question 5 - Do you think the average police officer, who is already (rightly so) high on adrenalin and concerned for his own life, will abide by Joe Average's request to stop his activity while Joe Average figures out what's going on?

Question 6 - If, in making a split second decision, Joe Average defends himself against what appears to be a home invasion and gets blown away, will the police be able to bring him back to life if they discover that they got the address wrong and 'no-knocked' the wrong house?

Question 7 - If the Joe Average in question 6 happens to be your wife, your child, your parent (etc., etc.) will it really be all that comforting that you might be able to sue the rear ends off the police, etc.?


Thanx,
TraCoun

[seamusTX]

These are all good questions.

They are also not hypothetical questions. Police have broken into the wrong house, and police and innocent residents have ended up dead. The name Pedro Oregon may ring a bell for Texans. Robbers and murderers have announced themselves as police. In a few cases, they actually were rogue police officers.

IMHO, it's not worth the risk both to the police and innocent people just to catch junkies. It's not possible to flush an entire meth lab or a bale of pot down the toilet. If they're concerned about a fugitive escaping, make sure every door and window is covered before starting the search.

- Jim

[The Marshal]

TraCoun, all valid questions. And #1 actually makes my point, if you think about it.

Guys, it appears we are all off on rabbit trails.
Come let us reason on this. I am a pretty simple guy; I need to understand the problem in the simplest terms possible. So, without starting arguments or discussions on a) was the police at the right house? b) should the homeowner defend himself? c) who is at fault? etc etc etc.

The problem is this: Before a police hit squad can bust down your door, they have to knock.
Not wait for an answer, not stop if someone responds, not wait for the door to open and the homeower to ask 'whats going on?'

Nope. The case (as my simple brain understood it, and I could be *very* wrong here) is simply, and only, this.
Before they enter your house, using whatever methods they deem necessary, they have to stop 2 seconds (!!) before executing said plan and knock on the door.

Forget the rights and wrongs here and focus on this one point.
What point is served by knocking?
Nothing.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that they have to be screaming POLICE!! multiple times BEFORE they knock.

It would be as assinine as the State of Texas requiring me to rattle off my CHL number before I discharge my weapon. It would not prevent me from shooting an innocent, it would serve no purpose even if people could say I did it, and worst of all it would jeopardize precious seconds that *I* have to react.

I would much rather the S.C. be hearing a case on *WHY* police have such access to warrants for drug house assaults, which based on what I saw on TV yesterday, looks to me like a total misuse of manpower and authority.

~Bill

[JB3]

LT I am reading the same Constitution as you are. I definitely couldn't say it as eloquently as you did but, thanks for helping me get my thought out. John

[Diode]

I really have mixed emotions about this. One side of me likes to give the LEO's as much right of way to catch BG's as we can but man.... I sure hate giving "Goverment" too much power..... Sometimes I start to wonder if the Founding Fathers weren't thinking of this very type of Issues when they wrote in the 2nd Amendment?