Can the US live in peace with its guns?

[TxD]

It just keeps on coming.

"Some argue that such things would never happen if guns were banned; others say that such things would never happen if everyone from grannies to toddlers were packing heat."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 054873.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[seamusTX]

I'm am going to repeat this as many times as necessary:

In the year 1900, the United Kingdom had the lowest rate of violent crime that has ever been seen before or after in history. It also had no "gun control" laws.

A century later, they had banned all handguns and semiauto long guns for non-LEO civilians. They now have a higher rate of violent crime per capita than the U.S. They have more homicides and shooting assaults than they had when anyone could own and carry a firearm.

Meanwhile, nearly every household in Switzerland has had a rifle and ammunition since rifles were invented. Their rate of violent crime has always been enviable.

Guns do not cause crime. "Gun control" does not prevent crime. It never has. It never will.

- Jim

[Dave01]

This is a cut and paste from the article linked by the OP:

"Bullet-proof

If anything, the recent shootings have inspired more Americans to buy guns, recession or no recession.

In fact, all over the country they are stocking up on as many pistols, rifles, and shotguns as possible before the Obama Administration bans or taxes them.

According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the FBI carried out more than 4.2 million background checks on behalf of gundealers from November to January (a check is required with every sale), up 31 per cent on the same period in the previous year.

Interestingly, however, violent crime rates have at the same time been falling in Los Angeles, New York and other big American cities The experts are at loss as to explain why this should be happening.

I have my own theory: people are buying so many guns that the criminals are simply running out of bullets. Or as one firing instructor explained to the Columbus Dispatch newspaper: “The ammo is being snapped up as soon as it comes in. People are in a frenzy. It's kind of like that run on Elmo dolls.”


Seriously...as more people buy guns, the crime rate drops, and ammo availability is the cause? Pure stupidity.

[seamusTX]

It is not possible to extrapolate trends in crime rates over such short timeframes.

The rate of violent and property crimes has been decreasing steadily since 1992. There are occasional upticks in one category or another, but the overall trend is downward.

During that time, the "assault weapons ban" came and went, and tens of millions of firearms were sold into the U.S. private market. These factors had no effect on crime rates.

Legal sales of firearms and ammunition have almost nothing to do with criminal activity. Most criminals cannot legally own or even touch a firearm or ammunition because of previous felony convictions or because they are underage. (I say "almost" there because straw sales and thefts of legally owned firearms are factors in criminal access to firearms.)

I have never understood how someone can think that an adult who is legally able to buy a firearm -- which in many states requires more rigorous background checks than in Texas -- is going to go to a gun store, buy one, come out, and commit mayhem and robbery.

- Jim

[Frost]

That article can be summed up as follows:

I have never owned a gun, but they scare me so i am going to speculate about how horrible it would be if i did own one. Also, gun owners want to arm toddlers and a royal family is a great way to restrain the government.

[thankGod]

[boomerang]

We can and do live in peace with our guns everywhere average law abiding citizens can carry openly or concealed with no permit.

[ghostrider]

>I have my own theory: people are buying so many guns that the criminals are simply
>running out of bullets.

That's not a theory. That's an opinion derived in a vacuum or a comment intended to support an agenda.

[Liberty]

It is not possible to extrapolate trends in crime rates over such short timeframes.

The rate of violent and property crimes has been decreasing steadily since 1992. There are occasional upticks in one category or another, but the overall trend is downward.

During that time, the "assault weapons ban" came and went, and tens of millions of firearms were sold into the U.S. private market. These factors had no effect on crime rates.

Legal sales of firearms and ammunition have almost nothing to do with criminal activity. Most criminals cannot legally own or even touch a firearm or ammunition because of previous felony convictions or because they are underage. (I say "almost" there because straw sales and thefts of legally owned firearms are factors in criminal access to firearms.)

I have never understood how someone can think that an adult who is legally able to buy a firearm -- which in many states requires more rigorous background checks than in Texas -- is going to go to a gun store, buy one, come out, and commit mayhem and robbery.

- Jim

One thing is certain is that nothing arms a population more than the threat of control or banning. Evil black rifles weren't that popular before the ban, AK and SKS were considered curio junk before the ban. There seemed to be little demand for large capacity mags before the threat of the AWB. Manufacturers dumped huge numbers of the mags just before the ban. Today just a conceived potential threat has driven sales through the roof.

[ClarkLZeuss]

This is a cut and paste from the article linked by the OP:

According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the FBI carried out more than 4.2 million background checks on behalf of gundealers from November to January (a check is required with every sale), up 31 per cent on the same period in the previous year.

Interestingly, however, violent crime rates have at the same time been falling in Los Angeles, New York and other big American cities The experts are at loss as to explain why this should be happening.

While we cannot prove that increased gun sales caused the crime to decrease, we can assert that the increase in guns did not cause an increase in crime, as so many people worry.

[seamusTX]

You are absolutely right.

Approximately 4 to 6 million* firearms are sold into the U.S. civilian, non-LEO market every year. The lifetime of firearms is unknown, but decades-old pieces are common (I own two from the 1970s). It is possible that there is one firearm for every man, woman, and child in the U.S.

Meanwhile, the rate of violent crime is declining.

You don't have to be a statistician (which I am not) to understand that weapons do not cause crime.

*This number is an estimate, but it is reasonably accurate. BATFE knows the number of new weapons manufactured, but their data do not reflect the number sold to individuals, law enforcement, and the military. Many weapons sold to law enforcement are later resold to non-LEOs. The FBI knows the number of background checks, but some of those are for second-hand weapons.

For those of you who may be statisticians, this page is full of goodies: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The data is mostly from the 1990s. Apparently this research was not a priority after 1999.

- Jim

[LaUser]

A lot of people who never shot a gun or owned a gun or have been around guns, don't see the need for guns. They feel that they have lived okay without one, therefore they don't understand why anyone would want one.

The news media, in order to sell air time because they are in the business of making money, sensationalize stories or finds ones that they feel will bring about a lot of interest. The more people watch or read, the higher the advertisement revenues. We all know that bad news gets more attention than good news. Iraq and Afghanistan get more coverage than Mom and Pop's organic vegetable garden. So do stories of sensational shootings.

What some of the media and many others fail to realize that there are 10's of millions of gun owners who do not commit violent crime. For every sensational, and horrible, shooting reported recently, there are 10's of millions of law abiding gun owners who would never think of doing such a thing. Yet gun control advocates want to "punish" the millions of good people for the actions of a very few.

The attitude of some is "if there are no guns, then there would be no gun crime." At best it is flawed thinking at the least wishful thinking, because there will always be guns as sure as there is no Santa Clause.

[Skeptilius]

I'll take an honest citizen with a CHL and packing heat over a baggy pants hat turned sideways unemployable punk any day!

[rgoldy]

While I would not like to be thought of as making light of this subject, I can tell you that I am certainly living in peace with
mine. They do what I tell them to do. They are there when I need them for carry or for the range. Otherwise they stay
peacefully where I have placed them. The only complaint I have is that they flatly refuse to clean themselves after a
day at the range. But, I am working on that character flaw.........

[Oldgringo]

While I would not like to be thought of as making light of this subject, I can tell you that I am certainly living in peace with
mine. They do what I tell them to do. They are there when I need them for carry or for the range. Otherwise they stay
peacefully where I have placed them. The only complaint I have is that they flatly refuse to clean themselves after a
day at the range. But, I am working on that character flaw.........

Rocks, clubs, knives, guns, liquor, cars, boats and trains, etc., etc. are inanimate objects that do no harm. It's the use or misuse of these inanimate items in the wrong hands that cause the problems. Geez, this is so simple, I feel stupid writing it.

So, why did you?