Where to carry after shoulder surgery?

[skip]

Thursday the 28th I have to go in for right shoulder surgery. I was sitting here this morning reading posts, and got to thinking, after the surgery where is the best place to carry? I am right handed. So, I figure I will probably carry in right side 3 o'clock position as usual. My thinking is that since I NEVER carry anywhere else on my body, that even in pain, if I needed to draw I would be more successful there, than carrying my pistol somewhere foreign to me. This also points out to me, that I shouldn't be so dependent on one method. What do you think?

[PBratton]

Skip,

I've had both Shoulders done.

Depending on the extent of the surgery, your arm will be in a sling for 3 to 6 weeks. After that you'll be working on your range of motion in therapy sessions.

From my experience, the hardest motion to get back is the one were you would reach into your back pocket or try to scratch your lower back. Very similar to trying to graw from a holster.

You may not wanna hear this, but you may want to leave the pistol at home until you can confirm that your shoulder can handle the motions needed to draw and fire.

After my right shoulder surgery, I was unable to fire a rifle or shotgun for 6 months, but that one was very extensive.

Hope all goes well. Keep us posted.

[Vic303]

Skip I had extensive shoulder surgery in January on my dominant side. I carried in a left holster a couple times, but mostly went with a waist pack in front. I was in a sling setup for 8wks (I had open & arthroscopic surgery done at the same time...) For me, a waist pack and a snubbie worked best. You might also try rigging a velcroed holster inside the sling...I thought about that, but opted for the waist pack as simpler.

[flintknapper]

Thursday the 28th I have to go in for right shoulder surgery. I was sitting here this morning reading posts, and got to thinking, after the surgery where is the best place to carry? I am right handed. So, I figure I will probably carry in right side 3 o'clock position as usual. My thinking is that since I NEVER carry anywhere else on my body, that even in pain, if I needed to draw I would be more successful there, than carrying my pistol somewhere foreign to me. This also points out to me, that I shouldn't be so dependent on one method. What do you think?

Skip, unless have you an extremely high tolerance for pain, you won't be reaching back to the 3 O'Clock position for awhile.

I would recommend you look at some alternative that allows you to access your weapon weak hand until you gain strength and mobility in the right shoulder. At some point in your therapy...you may feel good enough to consider presenting your weapon with your right hand again, but I would still carry it somewhere in front of your centerline until you have made a full recovery.

Good luck...and let us know what you come up with.

Flint.

[Skiprr]

I agree with Flint. You didn't say what kind of surgery you're having, but the most common are those related to rotator cuff issues. If you're having arthroscopy to remove calcium deposits and arthritic spurs only, recovery time will be quicker. But if it is a rotator cuff problem, you have reached an age of proper maturity (ahem), and your orthopod has recommended surgery, odds are it's a degenerative tear of one or more of the four tendon insertions where they attach to the head of the humerus, the upper arm bone.

If this is sounding familiar, then as others have noted rehab and recovery will be lengthy. And with the shoulder, it's a process that can't be rushed. Everything's a trade-off, and with the most mobile joint in the body we also get the most unstable. If surgical reattachment is required, you can count on rehab exercises for around two to three months, and to have regained most of your functional range of motion and moderate strength in four to six months. The older you are, the longer the recovery because the blood supply and healing capability of the rotator cuff tendons decrease with age.

If you're having reattachment surgery and something really comes down in the first months following your surgery, pain won't be your only enemy. The shoulder simply won't be ready for prime time: even if you think you might push through the pain, the joint won't have its normal range of motion and it will have greatly diminished strength. In a close encounter of the very unfriendly kind, even a 10-year-old kid has a good chance of being able to foul your draw and relieve you of your gun during the first few months following your surgery. (BTW, I am not a doctor; started off college in that direction, and ended up an athletic trainer in an earlier incarnation, so I know at least 10% whereof I speak. )

You may want to try to convince yourself that this would be a great opportunity to begin practicing with your non-dominant hand. I don't know what you normally carry or how you're built, but in keeping with Flint's comments, I'll run down my personal preferences.

1. Appendix carry on your non-dominant side. AC ain't for everyone, but if you don't suffer too badly from Dunlap's disease and have a reasonably lean midsection, it can work. It's arguably more difficult if you carry a hog-leg with a six-inch barrel, but certainly anything with less than a five-inch barrel is doable.

Appendix carry has a lot going for it, tactically and biomechanically. The important aspect here is that it has the fewest moving parts--and least required range of motion--of any common carry method. That should equate to a faster learning process when first starting out with your non-dominant hand. A number of manufacturers have begun making AC holsters, including our good friends at Comp-Tac.

An aside about AC (no pun intended) is that it does change cover garment considerations. An open, untucked shirt or a jacket can conceal at 3:00 or 4:00, but carrying AC at 1:00 or 1:30 requires something that can cover the front of the body, like an untucked polo or t-shirt, or an untucked but buttoned shirt.

2. Three o'clock carry on your non-dominant side. This has the advantage that it mirrors the drawstroke motion of your normal dominant-side carry. There's an element of bilateral symmetry in the way we learn physical movement. For example, if you take an experienced, non-ambidextrous golfer who has only ever played right-handed, it will take him less time to learn to play left-handed than a typical, complete novice can learn to play from scratch.

3. Pocket carry on your non-dominant side. If all you have is a Beretta 92F this may be moot. But if you have a gun that's small enough for pocket carry, or are willing to buy one, it gives another option. Pocket carry isn't ideal from a tactical standpoint for your primary carry (it presents some unique access difficulties), but there are worse positions. That's where I carry my tiny BUG. And that might be a side benefit of considering this approach: after you regain full use of your shoulder, if you decide to continue back-up carry in the non-dominant pocket you will have had several months of specific practice with it. And if you have to buy a new holster, this would likely be the least expensive option.

4. Crossdraw for the non-dominant hand. I'm not a fan of any drawstroke that moves your arm either across the midline of your body or behind your body (the 5:00 to 7:00 positions). Of the two, I'll always advocate keeping the gun in front of you rather than behind; I never recommend small-of-back carry to anyone. So given the temporary circumstances, while again not being an ideal primary carry position, it would be an option. Similar to appendix carry, there aren't too many moving parts and it's relatively easy to learn. You have the same considerations in body structure, though: if you have a "comfortable lifestyle body," you may find carrying anything in the 10:00 to 2:00 area to be difficult.


If your body type allows it, when you recover fully from the surgery and decide to go back to dominant-side carry, I'd recommend trying appendix carry over there. Three o'clock carry is my primary position, but it does require significant articulation of the shoulder to access. In dry-fire practice, if I perform more than about 30 or 40 presentations at speed, I'll have some mild shoulder soreness that night. Post-surgery, it might be uncomfortable enough that it would put you off practice...not a good thing. There is far less shoulder movement required in presenting from appendix carry.

If AC isn't an option, try phasing in your dominant-side re-training slowly. Don't practice your full drawstroke initially. Break it down into sections. Various handgun trainers break the combat draw into various steps: for example, not including reholstering, Gabe Suarez has a five-step process, John Farnam a six-step process, and so on. I like a seven-step model. What they all have in common is that one of the early steps is to obtain a secure, in-holster grip before doing anything else. Start there.

After several months and the shoulder is feeling better, decide that your presentation-from-holster practice will be limited to obtaining that master grip for a few repetitions...not at speed, just move perfectly and secure the grip. Don't rush things. A couple of weeks later, include lifting the gun to clear the barrel from the holster. Just that; don't move the gun any farther, just to the point of clearing the holster. Keep progressing every week or two until you are completing your drawstroke continuum smoothly and slowly.

Since there's been some confusing posts recently about point shooting, I want to clarify that by a combat drawstroke continuum I mean that, IMHO, your presentation technique should be designed such that once the muzzle faces the target (and I feel this should occur while the gun is still held close to the side of the body, at the bottom of the pectoral muscle, not the old "speed rock" style of presentation), you should have the ability to fire at any point. That means the ability to fire from a totally unsighted ECQ retention position, through what Suarez calls "meat & metal shooting" where you are target-focused but can perceive the outline of your gun superimposed on the target, through to full extension and a sight picture. In training for serious defensive shooting, there is no place for a line between "point shooting" versus "sighted shooting." They are not separate things; they're components of one thing.

A training tip is to practice your combat drawstroke in slow motion in reverse: start at full extension, two-handed, sighted shooting, then reverse the steps back to the holster. Practicing an identical sequence of patterned movements both forward and backward aids in laying down "muscle memory." Don't forget your stance and body positioning when you slow-practice.

Take your time before ever trying to practice at full speed. As with almost all athletic injuries, even after the pain is greatly reduced there's still an unconscious tendency to adjust the movement to accommodate the injury: it's your body's way of trying to protect itself. It isn't just practice that's key, it's perfect practice. If you pick up a hitch in your presentation or start twisting your torso to minimize the movement of your shoulder, not only will you fail to improve your technique, you'll negatively impact it. It's better to keep patterning the movement correctly, albeit slowly, than it is to rush things and either pick up bad habits or irritate the shoulder.

Good luck! And we'll be praying for you on Thursday.

[Vic303]

To give you an idea, here is a 3-day post op pic of my shoulder. The yellow coloration is mostly iodine on the skin as you will not be allowed to bathe for about 3 days. Internally the following was done:
cut & relocate biceps tendon to correct location and reattach with 1 bone anchor & 2 spiderwire permanent sutures. Trim off 8mm from the acromion. Clean up rotator cuff fraying. Reattach subscapular tendon with 2 anchors & 4 permanent sutures.

Moderators edit: See link below for photo as is is somewhat graphic due to post-surgical incisions.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b353/ ... G_3180.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[longtooth]

Looks just like mine Vic.
Agree w/ Flint on the pain. Hat to tell you but my knee rehab did not hurt as bad as my shoulder did.
Start w/ weak hand appendix or crossdraw.
When sufficently healed to start strong hand then shoulder carry or appendix.

[Tireshred]

I've been having shoulder problems and draw practice was painful. After 3 weeks of this I went to my doc yesterday, x-ray was negative, he says it's a torn deltoid muscle, gave me Celebrex which really helped, he said it could be a month or 12 months, depends on how much I tore it. When he told me to remove my shirt I told him about the .45 on my hip, he's a fellow CHLer and we always talk about guns after that. We're not friends by any stretch, he has hundreds of patients I'm sure, but I remember he's gun friendly, he seems surprised most times when he sees mine, but very pleasant. A torn muscle is WAY better than what you guys have had and I read this thread days ago and was getting very worried. Good luck on the rehab.

[74novaman]

See from your original post you had surgery today. Hope all went well.

[longtooth]

Prayer today for your speedy recovery & as easy rehab as possible.

[RPBrown]

Prayers for a speedy recovery.

As for carry position, this is why you need to practice off hand carry/drawing/shooting.

I had the same surgery 2 years ago and practiced off hand every day for 2 weeks prior and 2 weeks after surgery. (glad I never had to draw and fire. Was not a pretty site). Not ideal but better than nothing.

[Vic303]

Hope it all went well in surgery! I don't imagine we will see him online for another couple of days, depending on how extensive the repairs were, and whether he likes typing & mousing 1-handed, and of course, the ever-joyous effects of pain meds.

[papabear]

I had it too manyh years ago. Hope you get well soon.

[skip]

Thanks for the well wishes guy's. It's been a week, so I haven't been on the computer till now. Thanks again for the replies

[Tireshred]

Well, after not getting better I went to an orthopedic surgeon and had an MRI, I have surgery next week, I have a full thickness supraspinatus tendon rupture with a 13mm gap. He said he'll drive a screw in the bone and use it as an anchor to repair the tendon. 1 month in sling, 2 more months of rehab and 6 months to 1 year to full recovery. I bought a left hand paddle holster for my XD and PT145 and have been practicing non dominant draw and fire with my dominant right arm pinned to my side, I hit COM every shot, but head shots are out of the question this way, I tend to pull down and left enough to miss over half of head shots. I usually carry a 45, but the XD 9mm is much easier to shoot left handed. At least 2 more trips to PSC are planned.

How did yours turn out skip?