Kentucky pastor opens church to guns

[allinhtown]

A pastor in the US state of Kentucky told his flock to bring handguns to church in what he said was an effort to promote safe gun ownership.

Pastor Ken Pagano told parishioners to bring their unloaded guns to New Bethel Church in Louisville for a service celebrating the right to bear arms. He said he acted after church members voiced fears the Obama administration could tighten gun control laws. When the service began, some 200 people were present, AP news agency said.

"We are wanting to send a message that there are legal, civil, intelligent and law-abiding citizens who also own guns," Mr Pagano told the congregation. "If it were not for a deep-seated belief in the right to bear arms, this country would not be here today," he said.

Pastor Ken Pagano says he wants to show that gun owners are law-abiding. The pastor also held a handgun raffle, as well as providing information on gun safety. "I wish more churches did this, I wish more people did this," the Louisville Courier-Journal quoted one attendee, Doreen Rogers, as saying. "For some reason, most people think that carrying guns is sinful. It's not. I think my life is worth protecting."

About 10 members of a private local militia also attended, the Courier-Journal said. A coalition of religious groups and campaigners held a rival gun-free event at the same time on the other side of Louisville. "The idea of wearing guns to churches or any sacred space I think many people find deeply troubling," organiser Terry Taylor told AP.

In the US, the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Second Amendment of the US Constitution. There are thought to be more than 200 million firearms in private hands.

But some gun owners fear that the new administration in the White House could try to challenge or amend some gun ownership laws. Critics of the laws, meanwhile, link high levels of gun crime with high levels of gun ownership.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8122767.stm

[JCole]

I saw this earlier this morning, but I can't figure out what the point in toting around an unloaded gun is.

[mr.72]

I saw this earlier this morning, but I can't figure out what the point in toting around an unloaded gun is.

They are making a political statement about gun ownership.

The point is to make a political statement, demonstrating that normal people (who are going to church) can own guns without being transformed into a nut.

[bdickens]

Hmmm.

I took my loaded gun to church yesterday.

[redfish76]

Saw this in the paper yesterday, and I was intrigued. I, too, wondered about the mixed message of celebrating/demonstrating responsible gun ownership with unloaded guns.

Here is a link to the church's explanation of it all:

http://www.newbethelchurchky.org/openCa ... ration.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We see no inherent contradiction between a devout belief in God and a desire to keep and bear arms.

[redfish76]

FYI. Sorry about the double post. Not sure how that happened.....

Double post deleted, Compvest.

[rmoraes]

B"H

Hmmm.

I took my loaded gun to church yesterday.

So did I, but last Saturday...

[allinhtown]

Saw this in the paper yesterday, and I was intrigued. I, too, wondered about the mixed message of celebrating/demonstrating responsible gun ownership with unloaded guns.

Here is a link to the church's explanation of it all:

http://www.newbethelchurchky.org/openCa ... ration.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We see no inherent contradiction between a devout belief in God and a desire to keep and bear arms.

Their CHL class is only $75??? :(

[TDDude]

Luke 22:35. Jesus is talking to his disciples just hours before He knows He is to be taken. He just told them how good they have had it and then He says "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one". He goes on a bit more and then the disciples say, "See, Lord, here are two swords." And Jesus answered, "That is enough."

Later on, when he is captured, the boys start up with their swords and cut off a soldier’s ear. Jesus didn't tell them to get rid of the swords, He simply told them to stop their attack, as it wasn't the right time. He also knew what was and what had to happen but that's another discussion.

Jesus does not wish for us to be defenseless at all. I believe we are to protect ourselves from all attacks and to take up arms when needed.

When I took my first CHL class, there was a 5th ward (Houston) church that had their entire staff taking the class. Apparently, they had been making some serious headway in getting their youth out of drugs and gangs and had been receiving threats. They had everyone there from the main pastor to the volunteer gardeners.

[bdickens]

Allow me to demonstrate an example of why proof-texting is frowned upon by serious biblical scholars:

The Second Amendment community frequently likes to cite, as our dear friend TDDude has done, Luke 22:35 as "proof" that arming oneself is not only condoned, but approved of by Christ. But the whole passage reads : "35 He said to them, ‘When I sent you out without a purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?’ They said, ‘No, not a thing.’ 36He said to them, ‘But now, the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. 37For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me, “And he was counted among the lawless”; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled.’ 38They said, ‘Lord, look, here are two swords.’ He replied, ‘It is enough." [emphasis mine]

Clearly the implication in this one passage is that, at least in the popular mind of the time, going about armed is something that "the lawless" do and not ordinary citizens.

Now, I do believe that God is okay not only with be being armed but being armed at church as well. But I can't legitimately use Luke 22:25 to support that belief; I have to turn elsewhere.

[Liberty]

Allow me to demonstrate an example of why proof-texting is frowned upon by serious biblical scholars:

The Second Amendment community frequently likes to cite, as our dear friend TDDude has done, Luke 22:35 as "proof" that arming oneself is not only condoned, but approved of by Christ. But the whole passage reads : "35 He said to them, ‘When I sent you out without a purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?’ They said, ‘No, not a thing.’ 36He said to them, ‘But now, the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. 37For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me, “And he was counted among the lawless”; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled.’ 38They said, ‘Lord, look, here are two swords.’ He replied, ‘It is enough." [emphasis mine]

Clearly the implication in this one passage is that, at least in the popular mind of the time, going about armed is something that "the lawless" do and not ordinary citizens.

Now, I do believe that God is okay not only with be being armed but being armed at church as well. But I can't legitimately use Luke 22:25 to support that belief; I have to turn elsewhere.

I always thought that the lawless reference had a double meaning refering to Christ who was being crucified among criminals, and the disciples who later wonder the lands among all sorts of bad people including highwaymen and all sorts of roving bad guys. I could be wrong, but is how I Always understood.

Again I apoloigise if this too is one of the prohibited topics. But I do believe it is an important topic to many Christian gun toters and it seems like this is apropriate

[TDDude]

Allow me to demonstrate an example of why proof-texting is frowned upon by serious biblical scholars:

The Second Amendment community frequently likes to cite, as our dear friend TDDude has done, Luke 22:35 as "proof" that arming oneself is not only condoned, but approved of by Christ. But the whole passage reads : "35 He said to them, ‘When I sent you out without a purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?’ They said, ‘No, not a thing.’ 36He said to them, ‘But now, the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. 37For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me, “And he was counted among the lawless”; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled.’ 38They said, ‘Lord, look, here are two swords.’ He replied, ‘It is enough." [emphasis mine]

Clearly the implication in this one passage is that, at least in the popular mind of the time, going about armed is something that "the lawless" do and not ordinary citizens.

Now, I do believe that God is okay not only with be being armed but being armed at church as well. But I can't legitimately use Luke 22:25 to support that belief; I have to turn elsewhere.

I can’t really tell if BDickens agrees with me or not. Oh well as Mark Twain once wrote, “"..above all, I was afraid of a united church. For it makes a mighty power, the mightiest conceivable. And when it by and by gets into selfish hands, as it's bound to, it means death to human liberty and paralysis to human thought.” Mr. Clemens was commenting mainly on the Crusades when he wrote this but even today, we as Christians are to strive all our lives to understand His word. But also as Christians, we will not agree on what exactly that Word means and that is why there are so many different Christian religions. This country was founded on that very principle.

I’ve delved into the Bible before on this forum and have been booted out for violating the rules so I was attempting to keep things brief.

Yes, Jesus was to be counted among the lawless but I still see Luke 22:35 as being a warning to the disciples that they were going to be hunted and persecuted and that it serves no purpose that they let themselves be killed needlessly. Some select few were called to be martyrs but not all. It can be argued that God will protect whom He wants to protect and we may call this a miracle. The Bible is full of miracles but the receiver of that miracle always had to DO something in order to receive the miracle. None of God’s miracles were simply handed out. Satan is the one who hands out “freebies”. Of course, satan’s freebies end up costing much more in the end.

In the Bible, the cripple had to get up and carry his mat out of the room, the blind man had to walk clear across town, he’s still blind remember, with mud on his eyes and wash in a particular river in order to be able to see. We have to make the effort to arm ourselves be willing to do what it takes to face the “dragon” in whatever forms it takes. Then, I believe that God will give us what we need.

Once I accepted Christ, I don’t have to DO anything else to receive God’s grace, but I believe I do have to DO something to receive His protection and blessings. Including wearing a seat belt, locking my doors at night, and arming myself.

Here is a link to a long list of Bible passages for those who want to read more.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... ilit=bible

[dleewo]

Their CHL class is only $75??? :(

OT, but, the City of Terrel has a CHL class for $50:

http://www.cityofterrell.org/handgun.htm

That's where I took my class.