Ballistics Comparison for Subcompact .40, .45, and .357 Sig

[firehiker]

I am looking to buy a new pistol, and REALLY liked the size of my LEO friend's backup..the "baby glock" 33, in .357 Sig. I ALSO like, however, my father's new Glock 23 in .40 cal...although it's not as small (obviously).
I DO like the compact line's accessory rail not found on the subcompact. Now the main focus of this post...
My friend keeps talking about fps, and the high velocity of the .357 Sig whenever I mention liking the large bore if the .45; SO what are the actual comparisons between subcompact models with barrel lengths of only 3.75"? Is one caliber's "power" lost more than others with such a short tube? I guess what I am wondering is...with a subcompact, is there an advantage of one over the others (.357 Sig, .40, and .45)? The only one I haven't shot is the .45, and I know the others do have quite a kick, so that's not really a concern.

I've used the search feature, and returned several other posts that talk about one or the other, but not a comparison, and the Googles turns up Yahoo Answers and Ask.com, but it seems 14 yr olds are answering most of the questions; I'd rather hear from experienced carriers! Thanks in advance!

[OverEasy]

Most of the ballistic info you will find was done with at least a 5" long test barrel. Because velocity drops off with shorter barrels CCI Speer makes Speer GoldDot self defence ammo in a "short Barrel" version for most calibers.

With the Glocks and SIGs you can swap out just the barrels between 40 S&W and 357Sig and shoot either in the same gun.
I have a Glock 33 and I bought an aftermarket 40S&W barrel for it. I bought an aftermarket barrel because of the "unsupported chamber" hoopla surrounding 40 cal Glock barrels. (see http://www.glocktalk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for info). Now I can shoot either. I practice mostly with 40 S&W because it's cheaper. I carry 357Sig.

I have a SIG P239 and a P229, I have both caliber barrels for each. I would carry with either caliber, but I choose to carry the 357Sig.

With a 45acp you are stuck with that one caliber for your gun and it is an expensive caliber. The velocity drops off a lot with a 3" barrel in 45acp. Taurus says not to shoot over 200 grain bullets out of the PT145.

I would carry a Glock 30 without hesitation. I personally don't like the S/A cocked & locked carry of a 1911 style gun.

With todays problems in finding ammo and the costs, I'ld suggest a gun with the dual caliber capabilities, 40/357Sig.

I have aftermarket "conversion barrels" to shoot 9mm in the G33 and the P229. But I would never carry with the "conversion barrel" it is not recommended by any manufacturers of "conversion barrels". It helps on practice ammo cost.

Regards, OE

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Over Easy said "Taurus says not to shoot over 200 grain bullets out of the PT145."
To: USA1, 74novaman, or others who know about the PT-145's:

Since 45's seem to usually come in 230 grain doses, do you gentlemen have a hard
time finding either range or self-defense rounds with < or = 200 grains?

A PT-145 is under consideration by me for my next pistol, but I don't like what I've just
read in OverEasy's quote.

SIA

[frazzled]

Are you asking if .45 ACP rounds are hard to find? No harder than any other round right now. Its a popular round so is usually easy to find.

Frankly my difficulty is getting .22LR right now (really).

[OverEasy]

Here are some additional Glock suggestions:
The G33, G27 are the smallest frames. They can use the G32/23 barrels and the barrel will stick out about 1/2" from the slide. Longer barrel more velocity.

The G33 can use a 13 round G32/23 magazine or a 15 round G31/22 magazine. They both stick out the bottom of the grip.
You can buy a magazine spacer to put on the G32 magazine that makes the grip just like a G32/23 pistol.

I have a flat bottom 9 round G33 mag for use when I need the smallest gun possible. ie. SmartCarry holster.
I have a 9 round mag with a + one pinky extension. It makes the gun a little easier to grip & shoot. I have a G32 13 round mag with the spacer on it. It makes the gun even easier to hold on to and IWB concealment with a 'camp shirt' or a jacket is no problem at all. The 15 round G31 mag is my spare mag that I carry no matter how I have the gun setup.

Get the G33.

Regards, OE

[USA1]

Over Easy said "Taurus says not to shoot over 200 grain bullets out of the PT145."
To: USA1, 74novaman, or others who know about the PT-145's:

Since 45's seem to usually come in 230 grain doses, do you gentlemen have a hard
time finding either range or self-defense rounds with < or = 200 grains?

A PT-145 is under consideration by me for my next pistol, but I don't like what I've just
read in OverEasy's quote.

SIA

just read my manual and it confirms what i already knew .

Taurus PT 145 recommends ...230 grain FMJ
230 Grain is all i buy whether its ball or hollowpoint .
really its all i ever see.

it does warn not to use +P , due to the higher pressures .
i do have a box of Remington Golden Saber 185 +P JHP ,but i have never shot any .

[firehiker]

Thanks guys! This is some REALLY good and useful information...

[OverEasy]

USA1 & suprise_i'm_armed,
I went over to http://www.taurusarmed.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to check a little. I think the 200 grain bullet thing was for the older 1st or 2nd gen PT145s. In 2007 Taurus OKed 230 grain and for 2008 and newer they are OK with +P loads.
Taurus sold a 185 gr solid copper hollow point. Maybe they were trying to get people to buy them?
I have a 3rd gen PT145 and it shoots anything, so far. The issue of the recoil springs comming out of the slide and jamming the gun has kept me from trusting it for primary carry. I've never had a problem in over 600 rds. but I don't trust it.

Here is a good thread on bullet expansion from short barrel guns; http://handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=4826" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It seems to show that now days most hollow point bullets will expand even at lower velocities.

Regards, OE

[74novaman]

USA1 & suprise_i'm_armed,
I went over to http://www.taurusarmed.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to check a little. I think the 200 grain bullet thing was for the older 1st or 2nd gen PT145s. In 2007 Taurus OKed 230 grain and for 2008 and newer they are OK with +P loads.
Taurus sold a 185 gr solid copper hollow point. Maybe they were trying to get people to buy them?
I have a 3rd gen PT145 and it shoots anything, so far. The issue of the recoil springs comming out of the slide and jamming the gun has kept me from trusting it for primary carry. I've never had a problem in over 600 rds. but I don't trust it.

Here is a good thread on bullet expansion from short barrel guns; http://handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=4826" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It seems to show that now days most hollow point bullets will expand even at lower velocities.

Regards, OE

The first 2 generations of PT145s had issues with the polymer frame cracking. Perhaps this is why they recommended less then 200 grain. They reinforced the frame for the 3rd generation and the problem seems to have been cured.

OE, Recoil springs coming out of the slide? This is a new one to me. The biggest and most prevalent issue I've heard of over on TaurusArmed.net for the 3rd gen PT145 is a magazine issue, where some of the factory mags would drop out of the gun and had to be modified.

For anyone who has a PT145 or is thinking of one, I would recommend it. Haven't had any problems with mine, and its my daily carry gun. Most of the people who have one haven't had trouble with theirs either, though like anything mechanical, there are going to be screwups from the factory occasionally. Just a fun FYI, the 12 round 24/7 mags fit just fine into the 145. I carry a normal 10 round magazine when I carry, and a 12 round 24/7 mag as my backup magazine. 23 rounds of .45 in two magazines works for me.

[USA1]

For anyone who has a PT145 or is thinking of one, I would recommend it. Haven't had any problems with mine, and its my daily carry gun.

i have had O problems

[USCGELECTROTECH]

I have had 0 problems with my PT145PRO. It eats everything I feed it, it is my daily carry and hides very well in my Comp-Tac holster.

[casingpoint]

Firehiker,

Even if you lose 50-75 fps off the standard 1450 fps with the 357 SIG from a 3.5 inch barrel compared to a four, you still pack quite a wallop. My guess is as long as the bullet stays within the velocity window necessary for expansion, you will suffer less terminal ballistic loss and wounding ability with this pistol round than any other. You might get an idea of probable velocity loss with most of the rounds you mention at ballisticsbytheinch.com.

It will be a happy day in Gunland when somebody finally comes up with a 357 SIG round for revolvers.

[Street2Peschel]

You may want to look at the Glock 29 (10mm). It is very versatile and powerful.

[firehiker]

I would love a 10mm, but I am concerned about readily available ammo, without stockpiling a year at a time and adding to the already panic driven ammo hoarding...not that there's anything wrong with that... ;^)

[Frost]

Make sure you spend at least as much time doing useful training, like IDPA, as you do worrying about ballistics.

Ballistics by the Inch