Sell face-to-face to out-of-state resident CCW?

moredes · #1

Hello,

I've been lurking here for a while and never seen this question come up. I hope this is the right forum for it. I'm a MS resident with an MS CCW and a non-resident FL CCW. Do Texas laws allow me to drive into TX and buy a handgun from a TX resident (through an FFL "middle-man")?

Thank you.

dicion · #2

moredes wrote:Hello,

I've been lurking here for a while and never seen this question come up. I hope this is the right forum for it. I'm a MS resident with an MS CCW and a non-resident FL CCW. Do Texas laws allow me to drive into TX and buy a handgun from a TX resident (through an FFL "middle-man")?

Thank you.

You don't even need the middle man. Face To Face Transactions are completely allowed. You can come meet me in a wal-mart parking lot, and I can sell you any of my handguns or long guns, no paperwork required. You can hand me cash, I hand you the firearm, and you drive away.

Now, that being said, it IS illegal to sell Face to face if you KNOW that the other person is not legally allowed to own a firearm. You also cannot sell if you KNOW that they are buying it to use in the commission of a crime.

Most people make a bill of sale for their own records, in case somehow they ever trace a weapon back to it's original owner, that way they have proof showing that they sold it. While not required, it's not a bad idea.

EDIT: Apparently I was incorrect in my initial statement. While not necessarily illegal for the Texas Resident to sell a firearm to you, as he is not required to verify that you are from within the state, If you are from out of state it is illegal to purchase a firearm in the state of Texas from a Texas resident in a face to face transfer.

flb_78 · #3

Wrong, one cannot sell a handgun across state lines without a FFL involved.

dicion · #4

flb_78 wrote:Wrong, one cannot sell a handgun across state lines without a FFL involved.

How are you to know if the person came across state lines? Are you checking ID? You are not required to do so, and they are not required to provide it.

After doing some research, you may be correct. I concede my prior statement. However, we'll put it in the same situation as 'buying a gun for a family member as a gift' if you remember that thread.

flb_78 · #5

Im pretty sure the buyer would know that he had crossed state lines to buy a handgun.

dicion · #6

flb_78 wrote:Im pretty sure the buyer would know that he had crossed state lines to buy a handgun.

Good point! Original response edited

mymojo · #7

dicion wrote:
flb_78 wrote:Wrong, one cannot sell a handgun across state lines without a FFL involved.
How are you to know if the person came across state lines?

As their car pulls up you can check their license plate. That's what I do.

Oldgringo · #8

Hmmm? Isn't this a personal transaction between consenting adults?

Oldgringo · #9

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:Hmmm? Isn't this a personal transaction between consenting adults?
We're talking about guns here, not "guns."

Seriously, my brother, a Tennessee resident and TN CHL holder, sold me his Sig P 230 a couple or three years ago. Do I have to give it back or must we both go to the big house or what? In fact, he is the one who rekindled my interest in handguns.

Oh, woe is us.

Will this persecution never end?

moredes · #10

Well, rats. Thanks very much for the responses, though as you might predict I ain't all that pleased with the answer.

But on second thought and with my "proof-reading" mode engaged-- I know ya'll are saying a completely private face-to-face transfer involving an out-of-state resident is taboo, but how about if I was to attempt to conduct the transfer through the presence of a Texas FFL dealer? If that's allowable, would I have to abide by any waiting period?

chabouk · #11

moredes wrote:But on second thought and with my "proof-reading" mode engaged-- I know ya'll are saying a completely private face-to-face transfer involving an out-of-state resident is taboo, but how about if I was to attempt to conduct the transfer through the presence of a Texas FFL dealer? If that's allowable, would I have to abide by any waiting period?

Whether the seller ships it or brings it in person doesn't matter. The sale must be conducted through an FFL in the buyer's state of residence. Here's the process: the FFL receives the gun (doesn't matter if it's UPS, FedEx, or handed to him across the counter), and logs it into his bound book. Then the buyer complete a 4473, and the FFL logs it out to the buyer (after the NICS call, if the buyer doesn't have a CHL), and collects a fee for his time and trouble ($10-50, depending on the dealer; it pays to shop around).

To be more accurate, replace "seller" with "transferor", and "buyer" with "recipient", because it doesn't matter if money changes hands. It only matters that the gun changes hands between residents of different states.

If it is sale instead of a gift, the money can pass directly between buyer & seller. The FFL isn't involved in that transaction, and doesn't even need to know the selling price.

Of course, guns are illegally transferred interstate face to face all the time between people who are law abiding and have no idea they're breaking the law. The odds of getting caught are virtually nil, and the chances of being prosecuted (assuming neither party was involved in any real crime), are almost nil even if caught.

dicion · #12

Also, The Texas Standard Waiting period is approximately how long it takes the FFL to run the NCIS Check.

We don't believe in 'waiting periods' here in Texas (Well, other than for Class III Items, but thats more waiting for something to arrive, than waiting for the sake of waiting)

Now, I don't know if you can buy from a Texas FFL and Take it back to your home state. I don't see why not, but then again, I've already been proven wrong once in this thread

moredes · #13

Thanks very much, Gents!

marksiwel · #14

Why would you need to buy a Handgun in Texas and not your own state? seems fishy to me

moredes · #15

I'm a MS resident with an MS CCW and a non-resident FL CCW.

Why would you need to buy a Handgun in Texas and not your own state? seems fishy to me

I travel through Texas now and again and there are times when I see nice deals that are only offered "FTF"; I thought I might score a good deal. Since I HAVE A MS CCW AND A NON-RESIDENT FL CCW, I thought anyone leery of dealing with me would only need a copy of my CCW(s) and, as I stated, I was willing to

buy a handgun from a TX resident (through an FFL "middle-man")

. Just in case my motivation is unclear and you're the risk police, I'll repeat what I said in my original post... I HAVE A MS CCW AND A NON-RESIDENT FL CCW and the information provided on same would obviously have been available during what I hoped would have been a legal transfer...but since I don't know the out-of-state transfer laws, I thought I'd ask here.

Hope that's a reply that's clear and plain enough for your satisfaction.

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