Sell face-to-face to out-of-state resident CCW?

[marksiwel]

Honestly I'm a Lifelong NRA member, I'm as Pro-second amendment as the next guy, but I honestly wouldn't lose any sleep if they ended private sales all together, or made you go through a FLL for the NCIS check.

It would be an awful thing to happen. Once FTF transactions are made illegal the Government has full control of every trade and purchase and big brother will full records. Private ownership can then be made illegal and enforced.

BTW: the 2nd amendment isn't just about desirables having arms its about all of us.

The second amendment isn't just about owning arms. Its about carrying them. to "keep and bear" has real meaning. The second amendment is real clear and wasn't intended to be flexible.

I dont see expanding the background check to close the "Loophole" as ending gun rights as we know it. I dont see that ever happening in America. Most people dont know that you can buy a Gun from a stranger without any sort of background check and its 100% legal. when they find out 90% of the time it hurts OUR side because they are outraged.

As for the writing of the 2nd, I wish I could go back in time and have them rewrite it so say something like
"Every Citizen who can Vote has the right to own Small Arms of any make or model, for protection of themselves and for protection of the homeland"

I would also throw in couple of other Amendments
Right to Travel
Right to Privacy
Clear up what can and cant be taxed further

[dicion]

So you're all for ending face to face transactions on guns..

... Yet I'm sure you're still A-OKAY with FTF transactions on the number one deadly weapon in this country today...

...Automobiles.

[marksiwel]

So you're all for ending face to face transactions on guns..

... Yet I'm sure you're still A-OKAY with FTF transactions on the number one deadly weapon in this country today...

...Automobiles.

You do need a license to own a car, and car insurance incase you get in an accident, are you saying we do the same?

[dicion]

You do need a license to own a car, and car insurance incase you get in an accident, are you saying we do the same?

Incorrect. You need a license to drive a car on public property, and the car needs to be registered and safety checked to do the same.
Compare this with a license needed to carry a weapon on public property.

There are no such restrictions to just own one, or sell one, or buy one.
I can tell you that as kids, we had quite a few field cars that were not licensed, registered, or filed with 'the man' in any way shape or form. As long as they were kept on private property, no paperwork was needed.

[marksiwel]

You do need a license to own a car, and car insurance incase you get in an accident, are you saying we do the same?

Incorrect. You need a license to drive a car on public property, and the car needs to be registered and safety checked to do the same.
Compare this with a license needed to carry a weapon on public property.

There are no such restrictions to just own one, or sell one, or buy one.
I can tell you that as kids, we had quite a few field cars that were not licensed, registered, or filed with 'the man' in any way shape or form. As long as they were kept on private property, no paperwork was needed.

Well seeing as you wont use a car to Protect your property, and its much easier for a bullet to go through the neighbors house 5 blocks away from your garage than a car and kill someone, I would say comparing Cars to Guns is Apples and Oranges.

Guns are made to kill , this is a fact. You CAN use them for other things but 99% of gun designs are meant to destroy something. I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, ex-cons, and the mentally unfit, in fact I dont think ANYONE has a problem with that. Using a the background check helps keep guns out of the unfit hands, seeing as their are large gatherings of Guns and unlicensed dealers all over the South, if I was a criminal and I needed a gun, I know where I would go.
Keep gun shows "clean" and have everyone selling get a license.

I've seen some people at guns shows with a WEEE Bit too many guns of the same make "Private selling" when they really should have alicense because they make a large protion of their money selling guns

[chabouk]

Guns are made to kill , this is a fact. You CAN use them for other things but 99% of gun designs are meant to destroy something. I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, ex-cons, and the mentally unfit, in fact I dont think ANYONE has a problem with that. Using a the background check helps keep guns out of the unfit hands, seeing as their are large gatherings of Guns and unlicensed dealers all over the South, if I was a criminal and I needed a gun, I know where I would go.
Keep gun shows "clean" and have everyone selling get a license.

Honestly I'm a Lifelong NRA member, I'm as Pro-second amendment as the next guy....

If the "next guy" is Josh Sugarmann, apparently.

[dicion]

Problem is, you say you want to keep them out of the hands of the 'unfit'

However, you want to give the power to decide who is 'unfit' to the government entirely?

You do that, and certainly before long, we'll ALL be 'unfit' according to them.

The 2nd amendment doesn't have "...Unless some people don't want you to own them because they believe you are unfit" at the end of it.

As far as Ex-Cons with guns, Yes, I am fine with it. If they truly are ready for release back into society, and have served their time for their crime. I have no problem with them owning firearms. The problem today is our prisons are clogged with people for things that shouldn't be crimes, and so, they're letting out ones that SHOULDN'T be being let out. That's a failure of the prison system, not the second amendment. Who's that run by again? OH YEHA.. the Government

[marksiwel]

Guns are made to kill , this is a fact. You CAN use them for other things but 99% of gun designs are meant to destroy something. I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, ex-cons, and the mentally unfit, in fact I dont think ANYONE has a problem with that. Using a the background check helps keep guns out of the unfit hands, seeing as their are large gatherings of Guns and unlicensed dealers all over the South, if I was a criminal and I needed a gun, I know where I would go.
Keep gun shows "clean" and have everyone selling get a license.

Honestly I'm a Lifelong NRA member, I'm as Pro-second amendment as the next guy....

If the "next guy" is Josh Sugarmann, apparently.

Did I say ban handguns? No. Did I say ban "Assault Rifles". I didnt say ban anything.
You cant buy TNT without a license right? So can I legally buy TNT from a Private party? NO. It just seems, stupid, that you can do the same with guns.

I realize this isnt a popular idea, and that further reducing "Gun Rights" is never popular, but I could support it.
I'm also for
Making it easier for people to buy Full Auto Weapons, Silencers, and carrying handguns more places.


As for the mentally unfit? Well thats were it gets slipperly isnt it? Lets see, if you have ever been committed for Drug Abuse, Booze abuse, Pyshocitc Rage problems like the VA Tech shooter, ect. Pretty much people that are legally "unfit".
Then again they allready have restrictions on Ex-Cons, then people who arent cons but fall under x,y, and z. DUI means you cant get a CHL? You dont hear anyone whining about that now do you?

[Keith B]

Then again they allready have restrictions on Ex-Cons, then people who arent cons but fall under x,y, and z. DUI means you cant get a CHL? You dont hear anyone whining about that now do you?

Actually, you will find many posts on here from member who think certain restrictions currently banning you from getting a CHL should be removed. You will also find many members who believe that an felon should be able to have their rights restored allowing them to own firearms.

[chabouk]

Did I say ban handguns? No. Did I say ban "Assault Rifles". I didnt say ban anything.

You want to ban all guns from certain people. That's no different than banning the guns themselves.

[marksiwel]

Did I say ban handguns? No. Did I say ban "Assault Rifles". I didnt say ban anything.

You want to ban all guns from certain people. That's no different than banning the guns themselves.

They all ready are banned from certain people.

I also want to keep Children from driving cars and drinking booze, does that mean I dont want you to be able to drive or be able to drink (not while driving)? No of course not.
I just dont want Ex-Cons getting their hands on weapons legally and easily.

[marksiwel]

Basically do you want to easier for this guy to buy guns, or do you want to make it harder?

[dicion]

Personally, I would rather they never let him out in the first place. As I said before, commuted sentences/early releases are a different problem entirely. They need to quit arresting people for non-crimes, and keep the obviously violent criminals in longer.
As far as I know, they don't sell guns behind prison walls, so he would not have been allowed to purchase one if he was kept where he deserved to be.

Obviously the laws already already restricting him from purchasing, owning, and carrying a firearm did not work, so sure, let's just make MORE laws, that people like him can keep breaking.
I'm sure once they realize they're breaking a certain number of them, which is obviously MORE than we have now, maybe 20? or 30?, it will make them stop and rethink their decision. We just have to make that number higher!

Hate to break it to ya, but criminals don't buy their guns at gun shows, even from FTF sellers. There's too many police around. They generally avoid cops as much as possible.
Besides, criminals prefer cheap weapons. I don't think you're going to see one purchase a M1 Garand from a guy carrying it around with a 'for sale' sign on it.
They buy them on street corners from other criminals, or have friends and relatives buy them for them as straw purchases. (add another broken law to the list!)
Even if you made FTF sales illegal, they would still do it, and would still get guns, because, oh yeha.. CRIMINALS DO NOT OBEY LAWS.

And with that, I'm done in this thread.

[marksiwel]

Personally, I would rather they never let him out in the first place. As I said before, commuted sentences/early releases are a different problem entirely. They need to quit arresting people for non-crimes, and keep the obviously violent criminals in longer.
As far as I know, they don't sell guns behind prison walls, so he would not have been allowed to purchase one if he was kept where he deserved to be.

Obviously the laws already already restricting him from purchasing, owning, and carrying a firearm did not work, so sure, let's just make MORE laws, that people like him can keep breaking.
I'm sure once they realize they're breaking a certain number of them, which is obviously MORE than we have now, maybe 20? or 30?, it will make them stop and rethink their decision. We just have to make that number higher!

Hate to break it to ya, but criminals don't buy their guns at gun shows, even from FTF sellers. There's too many police around. They generally avoid cops as much as possible.
Besides, criminals prefer cheap weapons. I don't think you're going to see one purchase a M1 Garand from a guy carrying it around with a 'for sale' sign on it.
They buy them on street corners from other criminals, or have friends and relatives buy them for them as straw purchases. (add another broken law to the list!)
Even if you made FTF sales illegal, they would still do it, and would still get guns, because, oh yeha.. CRIMINALS DO NOT OBEY LAWS.

And with that, I'm done in this thread.

Hate to break it to YOU, but did you not read the article about the gun smuggling ring that was running from Florida to new york? They said they got their weapons from Gun Shows. I know GUN SHOWS are not a big problem, but what is the difference between me selling a gun from my house to a stranger who "Looks Legal" to me, and driving downtown and selling out of my trunk to people who look "Legal"?
As for cheap weapons? Oh man what gun shows are you going to, I could have picked up Rossi 38s for 100 bucks, or Kal Tec 9mms for 250/ Not to mention the great deal one private seller had on some glocks.
I'm just saying private sales should go through the same background check as sales from Academy, Bass Pro, Cabellas, or your local dealer. You can still sell privately, you just have to have the other person go through a background check. What is the big deal?

you can save the NRA propaganda, I'm a life member, I've heard it all before, and understand the point you are saying. Its just irrelevant with what I am talking about.

[cdc101]

...but what is the difference between me selling a gun from my house to a stranger who "Looks Legal" to me, and driving downtown and selling out of my trunk to people who look "Legal"?

I thought this thread was about buying from people who already have been properly vetted through the CHL/CCW process?

I'm just saying...