Traffic Stops and Such

[Shorts]

Add another to "it's not generally a problem"

We were pulled over down around Uvalde by DPS around midnight on Friday night of Labor Day weekend for headlights not being on DH handed the LEO his DL & CHL. LEO asked if he was carrying and where it was. Then says no problem as long as it stays there. Went back to his car and came back a minute later and gave a warning.



Pretty professional in my book (about the gun, not the warning)

[CC Italian]

Sorry thats what I meant dicion. I know you have to give it to them if they ask for ID. I just meant what you said,that there is no penalty for not showing if not asked. Honestly even if the officer didn't ask for your id I think I would still give it to him. Secondly, I have only been pulled over once by a cop and he didn't ask for my ID. He wanted to see what motor I had under the hood of my old chevy.

[Drewthetexan]

I was stopped in Arlington for expired MVI about a month ago. The officer barely glanced at my CHL; he never said a word about it, and was absolutely courteous and professional. Friendly as our visit was, he still cited me while explaining that it'd be dismissed after I got my inspection done.

No special treatment (the other myth), no exaggerated response or presumption of guilt, absolutely nothing different from a normal stop, which was fine by me.

[garcia946]

Last time I was stopped , I had my licenses ready with my insurance by the time he got to the door. Looked at my DL and insurance and then my CHL. Asked if I had my CCW said that I did. He asked where it was. So to make everything go faster I told him in leg pocket. He said ok ,let`s make sure it stays there went back to his car to run my info.Came back to return things and gave them back.Told me to slow down ( granted I was going 7 over ). Then he asked me why I had a CHL? I`ve never been asked that by a LEO until then.I did answer him my reason why , but that blew me away.
About a week later i saw his partner and told him what had happened. His exact words were " it`s none of his business why you have your CHL " Thought that was funny.....

[mgood]

His exact words were " it`s none of his business why you have your CHL " Thought that was funny.....

That's true. But police officers are human. Some are curious, some are frightened, some are leaning in the direction of supporting it and just looking for additional knowledge, many are all for it, I'm sure there are some who don't give a rip one way or the other.

[chabouk]

I've been disarmed once during a traffic stop and that was with DPS. This is consistent with other reports on this board. The trooper was professional about it, asked me where the gun was, told me he would take it and did. He did not perform any other search of me or my belongings. I would much rather not be disarmed, but, the law says it's up to the officer and if that's all he does (i.e. no nasty commentary on why I'm carrying or using it as a pretext for other searches) I'm not going to get too upset.

While many people (including many police, according to reports) think they can disarm during every encounter, that's not really what the law says.

Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.

(b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may temporarily disarm a license holder when a license holder enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility, if the law enforcement agency provides a gun locker where the peace officer can secure the license holder's handgun. The peace officer shall secure the handgun in the locker and shall return the handgun to the license holder immediately after the license holder leaves the nonpublic, secure portion of the law enforcement facility.

(c) A law enforcement facility shall prominently display at each entrance to a nonpublic, secure portion of the facility a sign that gives notice in both English and Spanish that, under this section, a peace officer may temporarily disarm a license holder when the license holder enters the nonpublic, secure portion of the facility. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height. The sign shall be displayed in a clearly visible and conspicuous manner.

(d) In this section:

(1) "Law enforcement facility" means a building or a portion of a building used exclusively by a law enforcement agency that employs peace officers as described by Articles 2.12(1) and (3), Code of Criminal Procedure, and support personnel to conduct the official business of the agency. The term does not include:

(A) any portion of a building not actively used exclusively to conduct the official business of the agency; or

(B) any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk, walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(2) "Nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility" means that portion of a law enforcement facility to which the general public is denied access without express permission and to which access is granted solely to conduct the official business of the law enforcement agency.

[txmatt]

While many people (including many police, according to reports) think they can disarm during every encounter, that's not really what the law says.

Yeah, well I guess he reasonably believed it was necessary. And it sounds like a lot of DPS troopers reasonably believe it is necessary rather frequently. I don't see how that is any different from the law saying it's up to the officer; in fact, that's almost exactly what the law says. I wish there were a higher standard to meet for disarmament, but there isn't.

[mgood]

While many people (including many police, according to reports) think they can disarm during every encounter, that's not really what the law says.

Yeah, well I guess he reasonably believed it was necessary. And it sounds like a lot of DPS troopers reasonably believe it is necessary rather frequently. I don't see how that is any different from the law saying it's up to the officer; in fact, that's almost exactly what the law says. I wish there were a higher standard to meet for disarmament, but there isn't.

That was probably a bone thrown to the law enforcement community to get the CHL law passed in the first place. Someone probably said, "Ok, what if the law provides that an LEO may disarm the licensee if he feels that will make the situation safer?" And so it was written.

If an officer says he reasonably believed it was necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual, even if he "reasonably believes" it's necessary every time he encounters a CHL, I don't think I'd want to go to court and argue that I don't think he had any reason to believe any such thing.
This is one I think we should just leave alone. I think that over time, law enforcement has gotten, and will continue to get, more comfortable with the idea of citizens being armed. And that works out well for us.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

txmatt:
When the DPS trooper disarmed you, did he have you place your
hands on your vehicle and remove your gun from its holster himself?
I would not think that he would allow you to put your hand on your own
gun.

Was he careful with your weapon? Did he ask about one in the pipe
and your gun's safety status?

When he gave you the weapon back, had he unloaded it in order to give you
the gun and ammo separate from one another?

I assume that your LEO did a much better job than the game warden
who pulled a CHL's XD out and shot out the front tire of his 4 wheeler!!

SIA

[txmatt]

txmatt:
When the DPS trooper disarmed you, did he have you place your
hands on your vehicle and remove your gun from its holster himself?
I would not think that he would allow you to put your hand on your own
gun.

He had me hold my arms out and removed it from my IWB holster himself

Was he careful with your weapon? Did he ask about one in the pipe
and your gun's safety status?

He handled it properly. I was carrying my j frame S&W so I guess he (correctly) assumed all chambers were loaded and that there is no manual safety

When he gave you the weapon back, had he unloaded it in order to give you
the gun and ammo separate from one another?

This is the one part that didn't really make sense to me. He put my loaded revolver on my tank bag with me standing between his truck and my bike with no instructions as to whether I should wait for him to leave or what. He did tell me where he was putting it several times (as though I'm not going to pay attention to where he puts my weapon!)

I assume that your LEO did a much better job than the game warden
who pulled a CHL's XD out and shot out the front tire of his 4 wheeler!!

SIA

lol, Yes, as I stated in my first post he was totally professional about it.

[casingpoint]

Most CHL disarmaments probably don't have any reasonable basis behind them. Thus any evidence found as a result can't be used against you. Another virtually useless thing, as most CHL holders aren't going have any evidence of criminal activity But in a legal fiction, at least you are one up on the cops.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

txmatt:

Thank you sir for answering my questions.

That is rather quirky that he placed the gun within your reach,
but did not give you any guidance as to what could happen next.

SIA

[Shorts]

txmatt:

Thank you sir for answering my questions.

That is rather quirky that he placed the gun within your reach,
but did not give you any guidance as to what could happen next.

SIA

Well since he said 'tank bag', I'm going to go way out on a limb and say he was on a motorcycle There's really not much anywhere you can put a gun on a bike except the tank bag, tail bag or saddle bag. All those compartments are "within reach". I imagine if you were in a car he would have wanted to place it in the trunk.

I'm guessing the LEOs intention wasn't to keep the gun locked down away from him but rather use it as a minimum 'hold' to just take the gun out of sight for his own peace of mind.