Employer Car Searches

[boomerang]

This question has come up a few times recently, so I'm conducting a survey. Please answer about your primary place of work and pick the one that's the best fit. I know there may be overlap between the first two answers.

For the survey, it doesn't matter if they found anything. It also doesn't matter if you were fired or faced other disciplinary action. But feel free to post and tell your story.

P.S. Please vote only about your own personal experience to avoid double counting.

[garcia946]

No , never plus he knows I carry and no problem with it

[williamkevin]

I work on a federal installation, privately owned firearms are not allowed.

[LarryH]

I work on a federal installation, privately owned firearms are not allowed.

ditto

Our vehicles have always (as near as I can remember) been subject to search (the big sign posted at each gate says so), but in working here since November of 1977, my car has been searched once.

[chabouk]

I work on a federal installation, privately owned firearms are not allowed.

ditto

Our vehicles have always (as near as I can remember) been subject to search (the big sign posted at each gate says so), but in working here since November of 1977, my car has been searched once.

For most federal property, that's only a policy matter, not law. Employees would be subject to discipline, but not prosecution. Contractors can be terminated immediately, of course.

In Derrick A. Wiley v. Department of Justice, a federal employee was suspected of having a pistol in his car, and investigators received a written tip. The investigator requested to search Wiley's car. He declined, said he was taking sick leave, and left the property. A short time later he returned and submitted to a search of his car.

The agency fired him for not cooperating in the investigation. Well, there's Weingarten, Garrity, Form A, Form B, Miranda, 4th Amendment, and all sorts of issues at play here. Plus, the agency had a policy against personal firearms in cars, but it wasn't actually against any law or CFR. He won his job back.

Here is the case:

http://www.ll.georgetown.edu/FEDERAL/ju ... -3044.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GeekwithaGun]

No

I am a contract programmer working at a Federal site where firearms are not allowed, but park in a non-federal owned parking lot. There are armed guards a the vendor parking entrance and at each building entrance. There are metal detectors, but they are not turned on (go figure).

Been here 5 years and contractor parking has never been searched (to my knowledge) and I haven't heard of any random searches in employee parking. This is also D.O.D. and subject to search if the threat level dictates it.

I disarm in my vehicle and leave it locked up for obvious reasons. I do know an employee who is CHL and parks inside the gates and leaves the CCW locked up. I think that is playing with fire.

[ScottDLS]

No

I am a contract programmer working at a Federal site where firearms are not allowed, but park in a non-federal owned parking lot. There are armed guards a the vendor parking entrance and at each building entrance. There are metal detectors, but they are not turned on (go figure).

Been here 5 years and contractor parking has never been searched (to my knowledge) and I haven't heard of any random searches in employee parking. This is also D.O.D. and subject to search if the threat level dictates it.

I disarm in my vehicle and leave it locked up for obvious reasons. I do know an employee who is CHL and parks inside the gates and leaves the CCW locked up. I think that is playing with fire.

I don't think the DoD can search your car on a non-federal owned parking lot, regardless of the threat level. That would be a clear 4th amendment violation. I am in a similar line of work, however unfortunately for me the federal buildings that I go to are in Washington, DC. I actually have a special cleared building pass that allows me to go around the metal detectors (our DC office is in a federally owned building), but it is illegal for me to carry there, so I wouldn't. I also go to military bases in VA, but they are too big to park outside of.

[WildBill]

I don't think the DoD can search your car on a non-federal owned parking lot, regardless of the threat level. That would be a clear 4th amendment violation.

IANAL, but the 4th Amendment applies only to searches by LEOs. I don't think any DoD guard, security guard, employee etc can legally compel you to allow them to search your vehicle. If you agreed to searches as a condition of your employment and don't comply with their request, the company can probably legally terminate your employment. Again, IANAL, but if I am wrong, please set me straight.

[ScottDLS]

I don't think the DoD can search your car on a non-federal owned parking lot, regardless of the threat level. That would be a clear 4th amendment violation.

IANAL, but the 4th Amendment applies only to searches by LEOs. I don't think any DoD guard, security guard, employee etc can legally compel you to allow them to search your vehicle. If you agreed to searches as a condition of your employment and don't comply with their request, the company can probably legally terminate your employment. Again, IANAL, but if I am wrong, please set me straight.

I see your point, but I think the government may not be free to set conditions of employment that require you to suubmit to an "unreasonable search". If you park in a lot outside of their property, how is having a gun in your private vehicle relevant to your duties as a civilian employee, agent, or contractor for the Dept. of Defense? It's not illegal. So how could a policy allowing them to search your car be reasonable? What if they want to search your house? The 4th amendment is designed to protect individuals from the force of the government. By threatening your continued employment they are compelling you to submit to an arguably "unreasonable" search.

As Chabouk pointed out in his post, the Dept. of Justice lost a case where an employee refused a search of his car parked ON government property. It was against Bureau of Prisons policy, but not illegal. He got his job back.

[E10]

I'm the manager of our local facility, and the parent company (elsewhere) insists on a no firearms policy (in an open carry state, no less). We haven't been told to search any vehicles, but if I'm directed to do so, I'll object strenuously. Seems likely to cause more trouble than it's worth. Luckily, our parking lot is small and I park on the street - I let our workers park close so they can get to work.

[chabouk]

I don't think the DoD can search your car on a non-federal owned parking lot, regardless of the threat level. That would be a clear 4th amendment violation.

IANAL, but the 4th Amendment applies only to searches by LEOs. I don't think any DoD guard, security guard, employee etc can legally compel you to allow them to search your vehicle. If you agreed to searches as a condition of your employment and don't comply with their request, the company can probably legally terminate your employment. Again, IANAL, but if I am wrong, please set me straight.

I believe you're exactly right. No criminal search can ever be compelled outside the 4th Amendment. An employment search can be conducted at any time.

In the Wiley v. DOJ case, the prison officials (including the teacher) are all law enforcement officers, so that doubly complicated 4A issues.

[tauruspt145]

No, i work for a well known oil company. Not aloud to have gun in car per company policy. They say they will search at random but never been searched in the 4 years ive been there. im not to worried about it though, bc unless they have a dog they will never find it.

[gregthehand]

I too work for a big oil company in Houston and I've never even seen a weapons policy. If one exists nobody has ever shown it to me. I wouldn't be surprised it we didn't have one. We are very low policy company. Our leadership believes that those in management roles will make the right decisions and allow them to do so.

edit to add:

I just did a search of our internal site and we do in-fact have a policy but nobody has ever shown it to me. Also we have an amended policy for Oklahoma since they have parking lots carry. So I guess somebody somewhere is keeping track of the laws. It also mentions people with licenses in our regular corporate policy.

On a side note I have managed one of our facilities before and if they told me to search vehicles (they of course never have) I would probably just walk up to the vehicle look through the window and not see anything. They didn't say how hard I had to search .

[WildBill]

Our leadership believes that those in management roles will make the right decisions and allow them to do so.

That's a very novel approach to management.

[C-dub]

I just did a search of our internal site and we do in-fact have a policy but nobody has ever shown it to me.

But have you ever signed anything that said you've read the employee handbook or your company's policies or been given a handbook that has this policy in it? Maybe no one has shown that specific page, but they didn't really have to if you've been given the book.