Red light cameras

[5thGenTexan]

I do worry about the Slippery slope. First On Red Lights, next thing you know they'll put cameras on Radars and give you speeding tickets.

Mark Arlington did that for a couple of years back in the 70's called Orbis. They had fixed setups on 303 and a couple of vans that the could move around town usually somewhere along Division Street. I was dispatching for a company back then and got to find the guilty party in my log and hand him his ticket. If I remember they lost a court challenge to them and had to remove them

[gregthehand]

Part of me wants to rant and scream about Facing you Accuser in court, but then I realize they have gotten people for Murder on Video Tape evidence alone.

Most cities that have these have cops sit duty and watch the videos and then issue citations for the ones they feel are violations. The systems I have seen the cop just watches about a 20 second video that they can pause, rewind, watch from the different angles, etc and then at the end they click either yes or no for issuing a citation. At the end of his reviews he has to sign a UPS type of signature pad. The signature goes to all the citations and they are mailed out. If you ask to face your accuser in court that police officer will show up and get on the stand for your questioning.

[marksiwel]

It just FEELS wrong, I guess I'm of the school of thought that they gotta physically pull me over and let me know.

I do believe that Red Light Cameras do work though in reducing accidents, but I bet they would put them on every corner if they could.

As for speeding cameras? See above, you gotta catch me and tell me to my face.
I'm sure there is tech that could detect the posted speed limit and then send a ticket to you for going over it.

As anyone who drives on 183a Toll Road in Cedar Park, the cops are never on there and there is no Traffic, theres no REAL reason I shouldnt go 80 (Heck half the traffic is going 10 UNDER the speed limit the ninnies)

[The Annoyed Man]

I do worry about the Slippery slope. First On Red Lights, next thing you know they'll put cameras on Radars and give you speeding tickets.

Mark Arlington did that for a couple of years back in the 70's called Orbis. They had fixed setups on 303 and a couple of vans that the could move around town usually somewhere along Division Street. I was dispatching for a company back then and got to find the guilty party in my log and hand him his ticket. If I remember they lost a court challenge to them and had to remove them

City of Pasadena in California has used photo-radar to issue tickets for years now. And I know that overseas there are stretches of certain highways in Germany for instance that use photo-radar to penalize speeders.

[jimlongley]

Part of me wants to rant and scream about Facing you Accuser in court, but then I realize they have gotten people for Murder on Video Tape evidence alone.

Most cities that have these have cops sit duty and watch the videos and then issue citations for the ones they feel are violations. The systems I have seen the cop just watches about a 20 second video that they can pause, rewind, watch from the different angles, etc and then at the end they click either yes or no for issuing a citation. At the end of his reviews he has to sign a UPS type of signature pad. The signature goes to all the citations and they are mailed out. If you ask to face your accuser in court that police officer will show up and get on the stand for your questioning.

Dallas' system downloads the electronic photographs to a central site back east, the pics identified by the system as containing possible red light runners are reviewed by an employee of the company, who determines that reason exists to go forward. The "case" is sent back to Dallas, where it is reviewed by the police, and a civil citation is issued. A civil citation does not rise to the same standard as a traffic citation and the officer does not have to appear.

[The Annoyed Man]

It just FEELS wrong, I guess I'm of the school of thought that they gotta physically pull me over and let me know.

I do believe that Red Light Cameras do work though in reducing accidents, but I bet they would put them on every corner if they could.

As for speeding cameras? See above, you gotta catch me and tell me to my face.

I understand the sentiment, but consider this: If the official position is that any speed above X mph on a given stretch of road is dangerous, why should officer lives be put into unnecessary danger to overtake you? The "biggest" speeding ticket I ever got was for "105 plus, gentlemen... 105 plus!" (as he waved his handcuffs at me while getting out of his cruiser). I was on a desert highway, two lanes, straight as a ruler, miles from anywhere. My speedometer read 125 and climbing when I saw the black hood of a cruiser draw parallel to me. After he had calmed down, he told me that he had to go 150 mph to catch me, and he was angry about that because he had a wife and kids at home that he wanted to live to see that night.

You could say, "well, why not just let you go? Why chase you?" The answer is that this was a CHP officer (same as Texas' DPS highway patrol), and it was his job to do so. They are sworn to do so.

So, whether or not you or I like it, the state of Texas has commissioned LEOs to enforce the laws - all of them. Now, if you or I want to go out and drive like darn fools and kill ourselves on a private racetrack, that's one thing. But if we want to do it on a public highway, that's quite another. If witnessed by an LEO, he/she has to give chase, and now our actions are exposing a cop to unnecessary danger. That's not really acceptable. What if the officer's vehicle suffers a catastrophic tire blowout at speed and he/she is killed in the ensuing accident — killed while pursuing a scoff-law? So if a municipality or the state wants to install photo-radar equipment on stretches of highway where drivers are known to speed excessively as an aid to enforcing the traffic laws while simultaneously reducing job risk to sworn LEOs, then I can't really craft a cogent argument against it that doesn't have a slight whiff of crass selfishness about it.

That's just me 2¢. YMMV, and all that.

[C-dub]

You could say, "well, why not just let you go? Why chase you?" The answer is that this was a CHP officer (same as Texas' DPS highway patrol), and it was his job to do so. They are sworn to do so.

Well, this guy was full of testosterone. He wanted to chase you. When I was coming back from a cruise in '85 the CHP sent a few officers to the boat in Hawaii to sail back to San Diego with us. They were there to inform us of any new laws that went into effect while we were gone. One of the things that I remember very specifically had to do with the new Ninja motorcycles. Before I left the Ninja's hadn't come out yet. I'm not sure why the CHP was telling us about this, but the officer that did my "class" said that they were not chasing after them because it was too dangerous and they usually couldn't catch them anyway.

You all are gonna hate me for this next one. I think I'm actually okay with the cameras at lights or speeding cameras whether there is a real person that reviews it or not. I would prefer an actual person review it. However, think about the Predator UAV. It is using a camera to identify people and in some cases killing them once identified. It is piloted by a human and that human get's clearance to take the shot, but it is all done remotely by a machine. No soldier, marine, or sailor knocks on the BG door to either capture or kill that person, yet many people are okay with this.

[marksiwel]

Actually, they dont HAVE to chase you. I spoke with a LEO Friend about this over thanksgiving, he had a guy Pull up beside him at 2AM give him the Bird and fly off on his Crotch Rocket (A Ninja) at 150mph.
Should the cop step on the Gas and try and catch this fool through Hill Country?
Or
Call it into the Cop down the road.

The Answer was None of the above.
If you chase him, you could kill yourself, others, or him.
Call the Cop down the road? Wont catch him, other cops will laugh at you ect.
He said just let the guy go, if he wants to do 150 and its not feasible to catch him its "Self Correcting Behavior" and he will either Die, Hurt himself, or have a scare so bad he will wise up.

[The Annoyed Man]

You all are gonna hate me for this next one. I think I'm actually okay with the cameras at lights or speeding cameras whether there is a real person that reviews it or not. I would prefer an actual person review it.

I'm one of the few who is with you on this one.

BTW, tearing off through the hills on a sport bike is not "just" self-correcting behavior — not when you run wide in a blind turn and put both you and your sport bike through the windshield of an oncoming car, killing everyone inside the car, including an infant. (I have actually seen this.) That is the fly in the ointment of all the "what's the harm" arguments out there. Other motorists use the road too, and my foolish behavior is not necessarily without consequence to other drivers. It just isn't, and no amount of prevaricating will make it so.

[marksiwel]

You all are gonna hate me for this next one. I think I'm actually okay with the cameras at lights or speeding cameras whether there is a real person that reviews it or not. I would prefer an actual person review it.

I'm one of the few who is with you on this one.

BTW, tearing off through the hills on a sport bike is not "just" self-correcting behavior — not when you run wide in a blind turn and put both you and your sport bike through the windshield of an oncoming car, killing everyone inside the car, including an infant. (I have actually seen this.) That is the fly in the ointment of all the "what's the harm" arguments out there. Other motorists use the road too, and my foolish behavior is not necessarily without consequence to other drivers. It just isn't, and no amount of prevaricating will make it so.

I'm guess I'm not saying a I support going crazy fast, and yes there are Real victims, I was just bringing up a recent conversation I had with a cop who said "*Bleep* it, I aint chasing some guy halfway across 1431 just to wrap my cruiser around a tree"

Obviously the only answer is to ban Motorcycles Oh wait I was Channeling Ted Kennedy there.

[C-dub]

Maybe my attitude has something to do with my age. Some of you might remember my first avatar. It was a photo of my Hayabusa, the fastest street legal production motorcycle in the world. It will do 200+ mph out of the box. I've actually had thoughts of selling it, but my wife wants me to keep it. Anyway, I've gotten used to using the cruise control in my car, my bike doesn't have one and will do 150+ way too easily.

Well, even if these red light cameras were out 20 years ago I wouldn't have been happy about it if I'd received a ticket, but I still would have paid it. Camera or not, I still got caught.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

I believe that Arizona has the highest concentration
of speed cameras in the US. What a bummer - desert
highways (straight and usually dry), but speed cameras.

Your speed on a tollway can be easily computed by the time
you entered the tollway and how much time it took you to
travel n miles, but the cops never seem to use that against
anyone.

SIA

[The Annoyed Man]

Obviously the only answer is to ban Motorcycles Oh wait I was Channeling Ted Kennedy there.

Maybe we should ban highways.

[boomerang]

Maybe we should ban highways.

I heard APD is going to close down the ones in Austin using nuisance laws.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Maybe marriage will also have to be banned.

Marriage was found to be the primary cause of 100% of all divorces.

SIA