Five Kids "Try to Rob me" in my own driveway

[Boma]

This happened to me 4 years ago, but I haven't posted it on this forum before.

My cousins were at my house and I was waiting in my garage for them to come out. I was standing where the garage meets the driveway and noticed five 12-14 year old black kids walking by along the sidewalk. These "kids" were easily about the same size as me. I try to think nothing of it, when the leader of the group, a girl, pulls a gun on me and says gimme your car! Then their group chuckles.

I thought the gun was a fake, but it was all black and it was impossible to really know. So I stand my ground and tell them to go away. They get an attitude with me, but walk off after about 30 seconds. Luckily they didn't come any closer.

I got my CHL in June of this year and have been educated in guns this year. Now I realized I could have been easily shot and killed if that gun was real.


What is your take on this situation guys? If that happpened again could I shoot them? I have never seen these kids at all and the first thing they said to me was "gimme your car," and they pull out a black gun.

[seamusTX]

... the leader of the group, a girl, pulls a gun on me and says gimme your car! Then their group chuckles.

I thought the gun was a fake, but it was all black and it was impossible to really know. So I stand my ground and tell them to go away. They get an attitude with me, but walk off after about 30 seconds....

That takes some nerve. (I say this with respect.)

You would have been legally justified in shooting to defend yourself, even if the gun turned out to be a replica. It is still attempted armed robbery.

However, the public-relations fallout would have been a mess.

I don't know what tactics would be best in this kind of situation. It's really dicey. You have someone with a weapon already pointed at you, multiple assailants, and no cover.

- Jim

[SteyrM40]

Well, I think you may have been justified in a self-defence situation.

If it had have been a real gun, the alternative would be much worse.

Stay safe...

SteyrM40

[nitrogen]

I guess he could have been politically correct by calling them African American.

And Boma, you've got some balls.

10 year old daughter rule.

And what difference does their race make?

On that note, what difference does their sex make? or their ages? or their height? or their position releative to the original poster?
When someone tells a story, it's nice to paint a picture of what's going on. You can easily just ask, "what difference does their ages make?" or "What difference does their height make?" I think it's lame if someone worries about political correctness so much that they say, "Two human beings...", that is, unless you are trying to start an argument. I'm sure the original poster didn't mean anything negative about the statement, and i'm sure most people reading didn't care until you brought it up, and attempted to derail the thread.

To get back to the original topic, it's amazing that people feel secure enough to attempt to carjack someone in front of their own house.
Yet another example of how we need to stay alert no matter where we are.

[txinvestigator]

I guess he could have been politically correct by calling them African American.

And Boma, you've got some balls.

10 year old daughter rule.

And what difference does their race make?

On that note, what difference does their sex make? or their ages? or their height? or their position releative to the original poster?

You know exactly what difference it makes, especially in reference to a decision to use force.

When someone tells a story, it's nice to paint a picture of what's going on. You can easily just ask, "what difference does their ages make?" or "What difference does their height make?" I think it's lame if someone worries about political correctness so much that they say, "Two human beings...", that is, unless you are trying to start an argument. I'm sure the original poster didn't mean anything negative about the statement, and i'm sure most people reading didn't care until you brought it up, and attempted to derail the thread.

How is race relevant to the thread? You know as well as I do that the implication is that because they were black, it was somehow worse. To me that is shameful and racist.

I thought you liberals did not like to label people.

[cyphur]

I hate to be racist, but statistics are hard to beat. When a certain area is plauged by crimes committed by white/black/asian/hispanic/purple/green people, then its only natural to make associations. I for one do not discriminate against anyone simply due to their skin color, but if they fit a certain profile......(and yes this applies to white folks just as much as any other group).....

I think the shame is in having to masquerade around acting like you aren't an observant human being able to discern trends by keeping your eyes open, reading the newspaper, and watching the news.......

I will say that yes, there is more to a book than its cover, and its a terrible crime to assume things of a person. However, there is no shame in raising your level of alertness due to said cover....

[nitrogen]

You know exactly what difference it makes, especially in reference to a decision to use force.
How is race relevant to the thread? You know as well as I do that the implication is that because they were black, it was somehow worse. To me that is shameful and racist.

I thought you liberals did not like to label people.

It makes no difference to me, and probably most of those on this board. If a 12 year old orange boy, a 20 year old black woman, or a 55 year old white pasteur tries to carjack me at gunpoint. Each of them will most likely get a bullet.

I also have to interject here. In the *SAME POST* you strenously object to what you feel is prejduice, and then right at the end, you go right ahead and blow whatever credibility you have right out the window with your "you liberals" comment.

I feel you need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror tonight. You must not even realise how prejduiced you are. You in the past have disrespected me, my honesty, my religion, and now, your image of what you must imagine my political beliefs to be, and you don't even know me.

Despite being a liberal, I have no problem placing a label. You are a bully.
Quit it.

[GlockenHammer]

What is your take on this situation guys? If that happpened again could I shoot them? I have never seen these kids at all and the first thing they said to me was "gimme your car," and they pull out a black gun.

You certainly would have been justified in shooting the pistol-toting assailant. However, when a bad guy has the drop on you with an already drawn pistol, your odds of drawing your gun and winning the fight are not good. You have my respect for showing some backbone and I am glad that you were able to de-escalate the situation.

If there was gunplay, I don't think you could shoot any of the other members of the group unless you could articulate why each one of them (that you shoot) posed a threat. That's a lot to ask for in such a heated situation.

Again, congrats on handling the situation well. I would not have thought less of any man (or woman) that would have tossed over the keys. In fact, that would have been my plan. Remember that the CHL gives you an option, but it certainly is not one you have to exercise. I don't have the reference handy, but a Dallas-area CHL-er was being robbed at gunpoint and was killed trying to draw his own weapon.

[KBCraig]

My verbal response would have been, "That's not my car."

Throw a wrench into their plans. Not your car, so you don't have the keys.

"Hey mister, does your dog bite?"
"Nope."
*snap*
"I thought you said your dog doesn't bite!"
"That ain't my dog."

Kevin

[Boma]

I thought about not mentioning the race, but I thought about it and I'm not going to sugarcoat reality. I live in a neighbhorhood that has a hispanic/black majority and that is what happened. If they were white or some other race I'd say that.

I had to take a moment and thank God just now that I didn't get killed during that past incident.

The group was walking close together, I'd say within a 8 foot diameter. I don't know how I could selectively shoot the weapon holder without hitting the others.

Good idea Kevin, I'm just not a good liar and my mind went blank when it happened.

[KRM45]

"gimme your car," and they pull out a black gun.

I hate to jump on the bandwagon of political correctness, but what difference does it make if the gun is black?

I would have had the same reaction if it was stainless steel.

[cyphur]

"gimme your car," and they pull out a black gun.

I hate to jump on the bandwagon of political correctness, but what difference does it make if the gun is black?

I would have had the same reaction if it was stainless steel.

Now thats funny stuff.......

[Paladin]

I think DF may be legal in the situation once it became a robbery. Armed or unarmed robbery is on the DF list. In addition, after shooting the one known to be armed it would still be 4-on-one.

Stuff like this is why I always carry when I'm outside around the house.

As to what I would have done as the situation progressed...

I'm thinking I would verbally confront them if/when they come up my driveway. Start making a mental plan. Look around and move to cover if it's available. Make sure I've got room to move if cover isn't available.

Legally, to an extent, you have to wait for them to make their move... which is why you should be as mentally prepared as possible.

Pretend to be giving them your wallet or keys as you draw to maximise surprise. Surprise will buy you at least a fraction of a second. Maybe more than a second.

In a multiple threat situation, the highest threat gets shot first (the one with the gun), then one shot to each. Repeat as necessary.

[kw5kw]

"gimme your car," and they pull out a black gun.

I hate to jump on the bandwagon of political correctness, but what difference does it make if the gun is black?

I would have had the same reaction if it was stainless steel.

1) toy guns aren't usually stainless steal;
2) toy guns are usually black in color.

Most Glocks are black as are most XD's and Sig's... however the XD can be had in other colors.

It is relevant to the story as told because we found out later on in the story that it was indeed a toy gun.

As for the poster and TXI's assault on him for political correctness...

A bunch of white guys riding around in a majority black neighborhood... look out.

A bunch of black guys walking down a street in a majority white neighborhood... look out.

&C!

I'm so tired of everyone having the hypocritical double standard of political correctness!

To hecky-dern with political correctness and the ACLU!!!!!

If the shoe fits then they should wear it, or If the kettle’s copper than it’s copper! I hope that is not too abstruse for everyone but this blunt simplicity needs no pardon, “for it is far more acceptable than the feigned modesty of hypocrites, who, while carefully restraining themselves to prevent any confident expression from escaping their lips, inwardly swell and almost burst with contumacy.� 1

I will and do judge on the history of criminal activity. If a group of people have a history of doing things that vitiated those of others then they are responsible for the eventual downfall of that group of people.

The Israelis perform “racial profiling� on their airlines, they are keeping their airlines safe.

I do believe that: Each person is responsible for his actions. And those who can prevent a crime (such as a CHL) has a responsibility such as the old maxim: “He who allows a crime to be committed when he can prevent it is its perpetrator.�



Russ

--------------------
1 Calvin, John; “Calvin’s Commentaries Volume IV—Joshua�; ©2003 Baker Books, P.O. Box 6287, Grand Rapids, MI. 49516-6287; ISBN: 0-8010-2440-4 p.107.

[DaveT]

Political correctness has no place in this type of a discussion, and yes - the description of race is VERY revelent in an accurate representation of the incident.

If the poster were telling the same incident to a responding police officer, you can bet your butt the officer would ba asking what color the suspects were if the victim left it out for fear of political correctness. What would the officer have the dispatcher put out in a bulletin..... be on the lookout for..... ????????

I am so sick and tired of PC type comments from folks scared of telling it like it is these days. That's one of the biggest and IMO, most negative things that has happened in this country in recent years.

Let's face it..... if a black person tries to rob you, it can't be sugarcoated. Same thing goes if the crime was a white person or any other race. The facts are the facts and need to be told as accurately as possible...... even here we need to remember "the truth and nothing but the truth".

There seems to be a developing trend on this board for personal attacks when someone disagrees with the opinion or post of another. I made a decision not to post on another gun board for that very reason, when I started here I had the impression that this board was above that.......