Question about handgun transfer

[chartreuse]

So no matter what we will still have to get ffl involved in order to be a legal transfer? Ok.. What about the other way around that I want to transfer my guns to him? I m visiting in LA but with a Texas ID.

The recipient of a handgun has to receive it in the state where he resides. If it's coming from another state, it must be transferred through an FFL.

And why the ffl here in LA tells me we can do whatever we want with the guns.. No need ffl involved in private sells?

I don't know why he would say that.

You could ask him why he thinks 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) does not apply to the situations that you are talking about. (It does apply.)

- Jim

Perhaps the FFL was under the mistaken impression that the OP had moved house and was now a LA resident?

[ed7232004]

ok here is the tricky part. Is it legal for one Texas resident to sell the firearms to another STATE resident face to face without going thru ffl or doing anyother paper work??

I'm not sure what you are asking.

It is legal for one Texas resident to sell a firearm to another Texas resident with no FFL (with the provisions that I stated earlier).

It is also legal for two residents of Louisiana, Oklahoma, etc., to have a face-to-face transaction with no FFL. Only a few states require private transfers to go through a dealer (Illinois and California, to my knowledge).

It is illegal for residents of different states to transfer firearms without going through a dealer.

- Jim

so far there are 5 ffls telling me that selling from state to state ,face to face private sells are legal. ? Including Texas and louisanna ffls. Why is it so different than what I hear on the forum? Thanks again

[seamusTX]

so far there are 5 ffls telling me that selling from state to state ,face to face private sells are legal. ? Including Texas and louisanna ffls. Why is it so different than what I hear on the forum? Thanks again

I don't know. You can read the law, talk to an attorney if you want, do what you think is right.

- Jim

[Keith B]

ok here is the tricky part. Is it legal for one Texas resident to sell the firearms to another STATE resident face to face without going thru ffl or doing anyother paper work??

I'm not sure what you are asking.

It is legal for one Texas resident to sell a firearm to another Texas resident with no FFL (with the provisions that I stated earlier).

It is also legal for two residents of Louisiana, Oklahoma, etc., to have a face-to-face transaction with no FFL. Only a few states require private transfers to go through a dealer (Illinois and California, to my knowledge).

It is illegal for residents of different states to transfer firearms without going through a dealer.

- Jim

so far there are 5 ffls telling me that selling from state to state ,face to face private sells are legal. ? Including Texas and louisanna ffls. Why is it so different than what I hear on the forum? Thanks again

OK, those guys are WRONG. Here are the FAQ's from the BATF at http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain ammunition from an out-of-State source?
Yes, provided he or she is not a person prohibited from possessing or receiving ammunition.

[18 U.S.C. 922(g) and (n)]

[chabouk]

Yet more evidence that gun shops are the worst possible place to ask for legal advice.

[rm9792]

If your uncle lives within the state of Texas and he can send the firearm direct to you by using UPS or Fedex

Is this correct?

No, but since it is not relevant to this thread, I did not feel compelled to say anything earlier.

No common carrier will accept a firearm from an unlicensed (non-FFL) person for delivery to another unlicensed person.

- Jim

Wrong. I have shipped using Lone Star overnight, UPS and FedEx. You have to go to the hub and follow their rules. They all do have rules in place for shipping firearms. Problem is that it is almost cheaper to have an FFL do it thru USPS but by the time you pay 2 FFLS and shipping you can use the carrier. I personally would rather ship instate direct and pay the extra because I believe the Feds have no right to be in my business as long as I am not breaking the law. I have traded direct on here with several members and we had no issues.

[wgoforth]

If your uncle lives within the state of Texas and he can send the firearm direct to you by using UPS or Fedex

Is this correct?

No, but since it is not relevant to this thread, I did not feel compelled to say anything earlier.

No common carrier will accept a firearm from an unlicensed (non-FFL) person for delivery to another unlicensed person.

- Jim

Wrong. I have shipped using Lone Star overnight, UPS and FedEx. You have to go to the hub and follow their rules. They all do have rules in place for shipping firearms. Problem is that it is almost cheaper to have an FFL do it thru USPS but by the time you pay 2 FFLS and shipping you can use the carrier. I personally would rather ship instate direct and pay the extra because I believe the Feds have no right to be in my business as long as I am not breaking the law. I have traded direct on here with several members and we had no issues.

Thinking you may have misread this? Not saying an individual cannot ship, but individual cannot ship to an individual. an individual MUST ship to an FFL. You are required by FEDERAL law to disclose to shipper that it is a firearm. Failure to do so, if caught, is a federl crime. Not worth the savings. Now the HOW it must be shipped (ie, UPS requirement that it go overnight) is the carriers policy, but Fed law requires the disclosure. And fed law requires it be sent to an FFL. http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Suppor ... &NoCount=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mike1951]

Thinking you may have misread this? Not saying an individual cannot ship, but individual cannot ship to an individual. an individual MUST ship to an FFL.

Actually, following your link, I found this:

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

IIRC, this has been discussed in the past, and while legal, Lone Star was mentioned then as being willing to ship firearms intrastate to another individual, while UPS and Fedex refused.

[carlson1]

Shipped this week to a Forum member in Amarillo by UPS. He as not a FFL and I am not a FFL. You can ship person to person in your same State without going through a FFL. I use UPS hub in Dallas and there never has been a problem.

[rm9792]

If your uncle lives within the state of Texas and he can send the firearm direct to you by using UPS or Fedex

Is this correct?

No, but since it is not relevant to this thread, I did not feel compelled to say anything earlier.

No common carrier will accept a firearm from an unlicensed (non-FFL) person for delivery to another unlicensed person.

- Jim

.

Thinking you may have misread this? Not saying an individual cannot ship, but individual cannot ship to an individual. an individual MUST ship to an FFL. You are required by FEDERAL law to disclose to shipper that it is a firearm. Failure to do so, if caught, is a federl crime. Not worth the savings. Now the HOW it must be shipped (ie, UPS requirement that it go overnight) is the carriers policy, but Fed law requires the disclosure. And fed law requires it be sent to an FFL. http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Suppor ... &NoCount=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bzzzt! Wrong again, only interstate must go thru FFL. Intra state can be person to person. Read that right off the ATF website. You might want to read the rules from the BATFE rather than Gunbroker. Gunbroker assumes everything is interstate. Federal law also doesnt require disclosure, it requires that the common carriers rules be followed. Now the carriers I am sure require disclosure but that is their call.

[wgoforth]

RM9792, when my kids enter the 4-H quiz bowl, they are told not to hit the buzzer too soon

This from ATF Faq:

"May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922(a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]"

So, we were each half right..you ARE required by Fed law to disclose, and apparently we can ship within state. Never knew that last part. This too from same source you cite at http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[wgoforth]

Thinking you may have misread this? Not saying an individual cannot ship, but individual cannot ship to an individual. an individual MUST ship to an FFL.

Actually, following your link, I found this:

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

IIRC, this has been discussed in the past, and while legal, Lone Star was mentioned then as being willing to ship firearms intrastate to another individual, while UPS and Fedex refused.

I GLADLY stand corrected on that! The aspect of required notification as federal law still stands however.

[rm9792]

I concede partial victory to the gentleman above.

[1qaz]

Rather than going to the trouble of transferring ownership, is there a big problem with merely 'loaning' the weapon to anyone across a state line? Depending on the familial relationship involved, it may be easier to just 'let them borrow it' for an indefinite period of time. As long as the parties involved have no intent of ever selling the weapon, would that work? particularly if one of the parties is elderly - and don't ever want the weapon back, anyway....?

[snorri]

Rather than going to the trouble of transferring ownership, is there a big problem with merely 'loaning' the weapon to anyone across a state line? Depending on the familial relationship involved, it may be easier to just 'let them borrow it' for an indefinite period of time. As long as the parties involved have no intent of ever selling the weapon, would that work? particularly if one of the parties is elderly - and don't ever want the weapon back, anyway....?

IANAL but I think the father could travel with his firearm when visiting family and leave it at his son's house without breaking any laws. I also think there's an exception for heirs in a will.

I agree with carlson1 about in state shipments.