Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

[RPB]

Yeah that's the real question I assume. As a subdivision of the State (according to the Tax code) , a CHL couldn't be banned from carrying there unless it's a Court, has offices used by a court, during governmental meetings etc etc ... So, Is that tiny space in the strip shopping center which was once retail space, where the 2 ladies at the desks accept tax payments, but space not large enough to hold meetings, so they have meetings across the street, a COURT or "offices used by" a Court. If so, they don't even need a sign. (They should let people know so eldery grandmother CHL holders going in to pay property taxes aren't knocked off their walker, tackled, wrestled to the ground, their purse and LCP containing it taken, and cuffed and carted away to jail. Poor woman might get a tax lien for late paying.)

I'll let someone else be the "test case" because this town is smaller than my high school graduating class was, and I don''t really want the whole town pointing at "the man with the gun" (rather the man licensed to carry a concealed handgun whose name was in the paper) at the H.E.B. store... (the only grocery store in town) It's a really small town, the District Court Judge wears boots, jeans, no robe, and all parties sit at a kitchen table together, the Probate Court judge sits at the table too instead of up on his bench. (like a Plaintiff's or Defendant's table) I'm kind of known in town, don't need to be the guy in the weekly paper in the police activity column...

I know what the ARB is, I used to be a Real Estate Broker, as well as have an Associates degree in Real Estate, and I protested my tax appraisal and met with a nice young man (only one) when my "hearing notice" said for me to be there and he had taken one Appraisal Course taught by another Broker freind of mine who was a teacher at the college and she used to ask me questions since I had been a Broker longer than she..... the "hearing" went very well, (but after 25 years as a legal assistant, I still have trouble calling that "meeting" a "hearing" though that's what he called it when he reduced my appraised value by $23,000 on a $40,000 house (afterwards, a $17,000 house) and he told me to do it again the next year for further reduction).

Then in 2008, I filed a protest, got the appointment card, called to cancel, (dad was ill; I was his caretaker) a lady called back on the phone, and said she lowered the appraisal anyway without need of a hearing, and to protest it again next year for more ... My brother's Lakeview/almost waterfront home got reduced from like $75,000 to $21,000 last year after I told him to file a protest (he was several years in arrears and needed help, the idiot brother is bad at money management, that's what I was doing there today, making an installment payment on his arrearage payment agreement, before he gets attorney's letters again)

[chabouk]

Meetings of a governmental body aren't off limits.

Such meetings can post a valid 30.06 notice, though.

[seamusTX]

Well, maybe I shouldn't have, but I just called the Burnet County Attorney's office, and a lawyer there said "I don't know anything about the tax code, but I'd consider it a Courthouse annex, even though it's across the street and not in the Courthouse building, as are privately owned stores and the Library across the street, but they are on the "Square", whith a Courthouse in the center of the Square."

This is the problem that people who look only at the statutes ignore: Regardless of the plain words of a statute (which are often ambiguous, anyway), the police will arrest for what they think is a crime, and the prosecutors will prosecute for what they think is a crime.

If the defendant is lucky, the judge will dismiss the case. However, some of our judges are not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

These issues are not going to be fixed until (1) a case goes to appeal and clarifies the law in our favor (2) the attorney general issues a ruling or (3) the legislature changes the law.

Do I like the situation? Of course not.

The only practical solution that I can see is getting the legislature to change the law so that terms like court and school are more clearly defined, and places where CHL holders are forbidden to carry are removed. That is where the TSRA and legislators who are firmly on our side need our support (=$$).

- Jim

[RPB]

After more thought, I understand why an Appraisal District might desire to be considered a Court, as much as why the I.R.S. Auditor would like to be considered a Judge.

However, several questions arise.
1) Did legislature intend to create a taxing entity, or to expand the judicial branch by creation of that entity?
2)Can legislature (do they have the authority) constitutionally even legislate into existance an expansion of the Judicial branch, or create a new Court system, inside of a Taxing Authority?
3) Where is the judge who took an oath?
4) If the Appraisal District [or I.R.S., or Social Security Administration, or Texas Industrial Accident Board (Worker's Compensation hearings)] Aministrative "hearings" were "Courts" then why do they need to draft and file suits in "real Courts with real sworn in Judges" in order TRY to enforce their decisions.
Executive Branch/Legislative Branch/Judicial Branch were intended to be kept separate for checks and balances, such that if an Administrative Agency falls in one group, it is necessarily not a member of the other group.

Considering the above, The Appraisal District appears to be more of an Administrative Agency than a Court, like a Social Security hearing, or Workers Compensation IAB hearing, or an I.R.S. audit..

I thought about asking the head of the DPS or other Constitutionally allowed head of Department to present the questions along with briefs I could prepare to the Attorney General for an Opinion. I don't have the money or time to be a test case, but I think a defense lawyer could present a decent case that it isn't a "Court" which might get decided in our favor after numerous appeals.

However, I'm am not intending to pursue it further at this time, because after the recent I.R.S. incident, Texas State Capitol incident (NEITHER OF WHICH WERE done by Licensees), but CHLs already not allowed to carry in Federal Buildings, I could see how it could backfire and Legislature, or Attorney General or Judge, could put all State/County/City buildings in a group like Federal Buildings are already.
I'm am not intending to pursue it further at this time, because sometimes it's wise to choose your battles, and I'd rather fish at U.S. Army Corps of Engineers lakes more often, which we can't currently, with certain exceptions, than go to the Appraisal District office more often.

I know that all this could get way off topic, discussing all this, but the underlying "Governmental Entities improperly/properly posting signs banning CHLs" is here. However, I'm not planning to pursue it further.

[seamusTX]

The appraisal district certainly can't be a private corporation and a court, can it?

You're asking a lot of complicated questions that could be answered only by someone with extensive knowledge of the law. I doubt most lawyers could begin to answer them.

The legislature can create lower-level courts. See Art. 5 Sec. 1 of the Texas Constitution.

Texas law is a mess because of the way the constitution has been revised over the years, and many old laws and practices have lingered beyond their usefulness. For example, we have county commissioners court, which in most other states would be called the county board or something like that. Commissioners court has some quasi-judicial powers that are rarely exercised.

However, I doubt that administrative hearings meet anyone's definition of a court. For one thing, constitutional rights such as trial by jury do not apply to them.

- Jim

[RPB]

The appraisal district certainly can't be a private corporation and a court, can it?

You're asking a lot of complicated questions that could be answered only by someone with extensive knowledge of the law. I doubt most lawyers could begin to answer them.

The legislature can create lower-level courts. See Art. 5 Sec. 1 of the Texas Constitution.

Texas law is a mess because of the way the constitution has been revised over the years, and many old laws and practices have lingered beyond their usefulness. For example, we have county commissioners court, which in most other states would be called the county board or something like that. Commissioners court has some quasi-judicial powers that are rarely exercised.

However, I doubt that administrative hearings meet anyone's definition of a court. For one thing, constitutional rights such as trial by jury do not apply to them.

- Jim

I tend to do that, and that's why quite a few lawyers who I tutored while they were in Pre-law and in Law school continued to call and ask me questions when they were on the State Bar Grievance committee or when considering to take an injury case, criminal case etc, or not etc ... Also why I could talk back to my supervising attorney without getting fired when I was a legal assistant, actually he did fire me 8 times over 25 years, but called asking me to come back each time he needed to file an State or Federal appeal, and each time he got in Federal or State written Discovery, and missed me.


I agree with your entire post above
Since I'm retired, I need to fish more and retire my mind from legal stuff, so I can eventually decrease my blood pressure meds. It's just hard changing old habits/shifting gears/slowing down after so many years.


I think instead, I'll fire off an E-mail to the DPS asking "If the world ends in 2012, will I get a prorated refund on my Driver's License renewal fee of $24.00 since it doesn't expire until March 6, 2016?"

[driver8]

The YMCA in Alvin has one but it has no teeth. The letters are about 1/2" and it's clear plastic against a dark background. I never noticed it but my wife did , I don't know how she saw it, it's almost invisible. There is also a gun buster sign above it. I used to never carry in there because I didn't want to pack while trying to work out, but now I do just because the signs irritated me off.

[shooter1]

city of Sunnyvale and city of mckinney have 30.06 signs.. the signs i saw today in Mckinney at the public works dept. a complete seperate building from all other offices

[RPB]

city of Sunnyvale and city of mckinney have 30.06 signs.. the signs i saw today in Mckinney where at the public works dept. a complete seperate building form all other offices

Odd, I could understand a Sec. 30.05 sign there under 30.05 (b)(7) "Critical infrastructure facility", except for 30.05 (f)

..... I dunno.

[Rex B]

Today I got a "Vote for Me" email from Jim Truitt, who is in a runoff for Tarrant County Clerk.

I sent him this email:

Jim,
I haven't though much about this race. I typically vote Republican or Libertarian. But I always vote.
There is however, an issue important to me that the County Clerk may be able to address.

At the entrance to the Tarrant County Records Building is a sign pictured below.

As a CHL holder, I know that any such sign can be ignored by a CHL holder.
And that sign is much better than the sign that was up previously.

The last time I was in that building, I asked the deputy at the entrance desk for clarification, and was told "No guns, CHL holder or not. Nobody but law enforcement".
This is clearly contrary to state law. CHL holders pass the same background checks that law enforcement people do. As a (large) group, we are the most law-abiding citizens in the state.

What I would like from you is a clear commitment to clarify that CHL holders are welcome to carry in the Tarrant County Records Building.
If you will do that, I will vote for you, and encourage other Tarrant Co. CHL people to do likewise.

I'll let you know f I get a reply

[joe817]

Please do Rex. I'm highly interested in his response.

[RPB]

What you wanna bet you get a response such as :

County Clerk + County Records Building are "Offices utilized by the Courts", to record and Store records concerning Court cases such as Disposition of property due to Divorces, Probate matters, etc etc etc.


Please post any response you get Rex, Thanks.

I'm hitting "Brick walls" in my city so far on places that are posted that should not be, even from County Attorneys who should know better, but are anti-gun.

All the City nd County offices now have "offices utilized by a Court" in them .... where you pay a water bill, the next cashier over has a new sign, "Pay Court Fines Here" Justice of the Peace Secretaries are now located in the first office to the right, in County Buildings ...

If it wasn't a Courthouse before, they annexed it, so that portion of the shopping mall is now a "courthouse annex" which sublets space to the tax office, etc etc ... So far we have 4 "Courthouse Annexes," and more on the way I'm sure. And, you can walk clear across the whole town in about 20 minutes, so more and more of the city is becoming the Courthouse Annexes ... LOL

[Rex B]

I got a quick response:

Rex,

I believe in the Second Amendment. I have CHL and generally have a weapon on me or near by at all time. I promise to continually work to allow CHL holders to carry their weapons where ever they want to - including county facilities. We are not the problem - the bad guys are and they don't ask for permission to wound or kill anyone they want!

FYI - my wife and youngest daughter also hold a CHL and my oldest daughter has begun to express an interest in getting one as well.

Hope that I have answered your question.

Jim Truitt

817-832-3473 Cell
817-431-6552 Fax
prn.truitt1@verizon.net
Jim@JimTruitt.com

[Rex B]

In addition:

> Jim, with your permission, I'd like to post your response on the TXCHL online forum.

Rex,

Feel free to post my response. I will work on a statement get back with you in a day or two.

Jim

[joe817]

Rex, thank you for sharing.

He's got my vote for sure.