30.06 Question..... Again

[Mhoward]

I searched for a good hour on here and on google about what I am about to ask so forgive me if I missed it somewhere and I am starting up an old topic again.

The other day my wife and I went to eat lunch at a restaurant that is on the water since it was finally a nice day outside. They have a porch right out front that you walk across to go inside. Since it was warm and sunny out we just sat down at a table on the porch without walkiing inside. The waitress came out and took our order, we ate and left.
Last night we decided to go back there for dinner, it was chilly out so we were going to sit inside. When we got accross the porch and entered the first set of doors there it was, the dreaded 30.06 sign.

What would have happened if I was caught a few days ago while sitting on the porch. The sign wasn't visable at all from the porch area and there is no way I could have seen it without going inside.

Is this something that I should notify the management so that when other CHL holders come to this place they will know the second the walk up to the porch?
I usually try to avoid places that have that dang sign but I have to make an exception for this place since their food is so good.

Thanks yall

[5thGenTexan]

You aren't inside to see it, my opinion would be it didn't exist until you saw it the next time. Maybe it only applied inside. Either way not going to remain on any short list of mine. They definitely don't want CHL business very darn bad and restaurant failure is a very high odds even for some really good places.

Just my personal opinion.

[Mhoward]

I saw another post about the 51% sign, about how it was only in the bar area. I am assuming that companies can control what parts of the facility are under the 30.06 and 51% laws, but it is never OK to assume something like this. I guess if I go there in the future I will only sit on the patio; I will stick to the "I never saw the 30.06 cause I have never been inside" story.

[chabouk]

I saw another post about the 51% sign, about how it was only in the bar area. I am assuming that companies can control what parts of the facility are under the 30.06 and 51% laws, but it is never OK to assume something like this. I guess if I go there in the future I will only sit on the patio; I will stick to the "I never saw the 30.06 cause I have never been inside" story.

The 30.06 sign only counts if you enter or remain on property where it has been conspicuously posted.

Companies have no control whatsoever about 51%. If they have a license, the entire property is licensed (as shown on their property map that is submitted to TABC for their license approval). And TABC alone determines if they are 51%; if they are, then the whole place is 51%, not just the "bar area".

Some states have laws that say you can't enter the bar area, but Texas is not one of those. If they're not 51%, you're good to carry in the whole place.

[psycho_bob42]

I guess if I go there in the future I will only sit on the patio; I will stick to the "I never saw the 30.06 cause I have never been inside" story.

Of course now that you posted on the internet that you have seen the sign, everybody knows. Once it's on the internet you can't take it back.

[Mhoward]

dang... your're right. I guess I will get the wife to go pick it up and bring it home for now on. That's atleast until she gets her CHL.
Thanks for the replys yall.

[Wisewr]

Did you register the restaurant on www.texas3006.com for everyone else so they don't get in trouble? Where is the place?

[M9FAN]

Did you register the restaurant on www.texas3006.com for everyone else so they don't get in trouble? Where is the place?

Good point! Please do this so that the rest of us will know too.

[Medic218]

If they have a license, the entire property is licensed (as shown on their property map that is submitted to TABC for their license approval)

Including the parking lot?
I'm thinking not....right?

[hirundo82]

If they have a license, the entire property is licensed (as shown on their property map that is submitted to TABC for their license approval)

Including the parking lot?
I'm thinking not....right?

That's a contradiction that has been discussed here a couple of times before. In the Alcoholic Beverage Code, "premises" is the whole property, including the parking lot. However, in the Penal Code "premises" has the definition we as CHL holders are familiar with--"building or portion of a building."

Since the Penal code is the section that controls where we can and cannot carry, that is the relevant definition. However, it may cause confusion if an LEO is more familiar with the ABC code than the CHL laws.

[chabouk]

If they have a license, the entire property is licensed (as shown on their property map that is submitted to TABC for their license approval)

Including the parking lot?
I'm thinking not....right?

I think srothstein has commented on this before, but my understanding is that the "premises map" defines those areas where you can legally carry a drink, not necessarily the property boundaries. I've been to restaurants where they'll practically tackle you if you try to carry a drink out the door (not that I've tried, but I've seen others). The Texarkana Red Lobster had this problem after they moved from Arkansas to Texas: their "defined premises" was inside the restaurant, but they had an outside patio seating area where they would serve food. People were wandering in to the bar to order a drink, carrying it back outside to their patio table, and the local PD were sitting there writing tickets for drinking in public (it was a "dry", club-only jurisdiction at the time).

[srothstein]

If they have a license, the entire property is licensed (as shown on their property map that is submitted to TABC for their license approval)

Including the parking lot?
I'm thinking not....right?

You would be thinking wrong. The licensed premises includes everything at the mailing address used, including the building, parking lot, woods out back, etc. unless it is specifically diagrammed off on the license application. All of the court cases I know of have held this way for people arrested for unlawfully carrying on a licensed premise. I can't say about all of the local PD's, but I made sure and teach the TABC agents that the parking lot was legal for anyone to carry in their car and a CHL to carry while walking, based on the definitions of premises. But, in addition to other police agencies, I never got to teach judges this, so don't count on it holding up in court.

[ralewis]

If they have a license, the entire property is licensed (as shown on their property map that is submitted to TABC for their license approval)

Including the parking lot?
I'm thinking not....right?

You would be thinking wrong. The licensed premises includes everything at the mailing address used, including the building, parking lot, woods out back, etc. unless it is specifically diagrammed off on the license application. All of the court cases I know of have held this way for people arrested for unlawfully carrying on a licensed premise. I can't say about all of the local PD's, but I made sure and teach the TABC agents that the parking lot was legal for anyone to carry in their car and a CHL to carry while walking, based on the definitions of premises. But, in addition to other police agencies, I never got to teach judges this, so don't count on it holding up in court.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this. Do you have any references to court cases? I'd like to try to understand some of the subtleties that may be involved. For example, Sherlocks in Austin is posted 51%, but I don't have any way of knowing if the shared parking lot is owned by the owner of Sherlocks (and if it is, whether it's part of the area they are licensed to sell/serve Alcohol on). I guess what I'd count on is the fact that I'd not be 'knowingly' carrying in a non-building area because the only information I have is the 51% sign inside the bar.