Open Carry In Texas!

[Skipper5]

Eh, I personally like the element of surprise, but I would support such a movement because it is a great step toward the 2A.

I also agree. I just don't want eveyone knowing that I have a gun.

The element of surprise is huge.....eventhough was raised in AZ as a youth...we carried open w/out thinking about it.....I'd rather be dealing from a point of strength (knowledge) rather than showing all the cards on the table at once!

[40FIVER]

I have read every post with an open view, since I am a fence sitter on this issue. I do believe that the right to bear arms should NOT be infringed in any way. But our rights are infringed and will always be infringed to some degree. I don't believe that argument will win any votes. And I haven't read of any other compelling argument that a politician could take to the people of his district to convince them that open carry should be legal. I believe that the great majority of gun owners are probably against it.

If your only reason for wanting open carry in Texas is because the government says you can't, I think it would be a hollow victory to get it. Sometimes you end up loosing far more than you gain.

I think Mr. Cotton has nailed it when he expresses his concerns about the anti gun people. Right now, they are pretty passive because none of their fears have come to pass. This issue would wake the sleeping giant. They may be sheeple, but they seem to be multiplying like rabbits.

Nothing happens in Austin without compomise. The politicians will play give and take with each other on this issue. Open carry is a big plum that would require lots of small compromises to make the anti's give in.

I would rather have the right to carry concealed anywhere in the state, with no restrictions, than have the right to carry openly with dozens of restrictions. .

Let's press to get all of the issues (restrictions, signage, good definitions of certain words, printing, did I say restrictions, carry on company property, etc.) resolved with concealed carry and get it to where we like it.

Once we have concealed carry where it needs to be, then press for open carry, without giving up anything.

I believe we have the polical climate to make great gains on the concealed issues in 2007, but to push for open carry would be a big step in the wrong direction. Open carry is a GREAT cause, but there are other battles that need to be won first.

However, to press for open carry, then "compromise" by having all of the other issues fixed, might be a good strategy. In other words, fight for open carry, but then give it up to win the other battles.

40FIVER

[stevie_d_64]

When using deadly force to protect yourself from anothers use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force, the first "IF" in the law is "if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated"

Later it goes on to actually call it a "requirement";


(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time
of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the
habitation of the actor.


The law does not call it a duty, but it pretty much amounts to one.

Absolutely!

Since it does not apply to your residence, it does seem that we sort of already do have a "castle doctrine" right?

You betcha! I would not be opposed to the extending of that bubble or umbrella of protection...

But then again, I also believe that that does not guarantee our actions will not be scrutinized...And I think its right to understand that it doesn't (once again) give us full reign to act recklessly or without regard to the effects of our actions...

Nobody has a carte blanc licence, much less a duty or charter (commission) to act without knowing full well that you will, more than likely, be extremely scrutinized under a legal microscope...

[stevie_d_64]

I believe we have the polical climate to make great gains on the concealed issues in 2007, but to push for open carry would be a big step in the wrong direction. Open carry is a GREAT cause, but there are other battles that need to be won first.

However, to press for open carry, then "compromise" by having all of the other issues fixed, might be a good strategy. In other words, fight for open carry, but then give it up to win the other battles.

40FIVER

Bingo...

You are right though...Regardless of where you fall on the issue, I believe we are all on the same page, and ready to accept and support what happens regardless of the outcome...

If "Open Carry" becomes the carrot (red herring) dangling on the floor in Austin in 2007...So be it...If, like you say, it gains us more by sacrificing the concept, on other issues, sure, that has always been a tried and true political strategy...

It will have its day though...

Its just all those idiotic things that have been said in the past by certain politicians that really chap me for some reason..."Ma" Richards, Lee Pee Brown, Ada Edwards, et. al.

See, I have said this for years...

The day I walk out of my home, and forget to put "it" on...And I stand there and pause..."Should I go back in and get it?"

If I think no, because I don't need it (because we'll be living in a utopia then, sarcasm mode off)...

I would actually be looking forward to that day...Honestly...

Good thing I speak my mind though...Otherwise, to some, I would just be annoying...

[stevie_d_64]

And to think they feel more threatened by people throwing eggs in City Counsel chambers more than people with CHL's...

Speaking of egg throwing...

http://www.click2houston.com/news/9839752/detail.html

Again???

Pretty soon we are going to have to go through some kind of detection device for eggs before we are allowed to enter city hall...

Sorry from deviating from the gist of the thread...But I couldn't resist...

I know...I know...

[EricS76]

As I've already stated, I'm against open carry for one reason only - the reaction we are likely to see not only from the hard line anti-gunners, but also from those who don't have strong opinions one way or another. The sight of people carrying guns in stores, restaurants, zoos, theaters and everywhere else CHL's go now is going to create an issue where none currently exists. Some argue that people will just get used to it, but even if that is true, at what cost? How many restrictions on carrying will be implemented before they "get used to it?"

Let me ask these rhetorical questions. Would you continue to support open carry if it resulted in large numbers of businesses posting 30.06 signs on their property?

Would you continue to support open carry if it resulted in the Legislature expanding the number of locations that are statutorily off-limits to license-holders, as is the case in many other states?

It's been 11 years since SB60 passed and Texas finally got a CHL statute. Let's not forget how radical the idea of citizens carrying guns was only a little over a decade ago. Don’t underestimate the value of the out-of-sight-out-of-mind effect that concealing our handguns has on the 98% of Texans who haven't chosen to get a CHL.

Chas.

I agree with everything said above. Everything. I'd like to add this.

To those who think criminals try to take officers guns because criminals hate cops, think about this. An officer has a level 2 or 3 retention holster, training and a radio. Criminals still try to take their guns. A private citizen most likely has none of those things. Which one is a easier target? Open carry might be protection from lesser or lazy criminals, but to a motivated criminal or group of criminals, it's a free gun.

[phddan]

EricS76 wrote,
[quote]
To those who think criminals try to take officers guns because criminals hate cops, think about this. An officer has a level 2 or 3 retention holster, training and a radio. Criminals still try to take their guns. A private citizen most likely has none of those things. Which one is a easier target? Open carry might be protection from lesser or lazy criminals, but to a motivated criminal or group of criminals, it's a free gun. (end quote)

Please cite one case of an officer minding his own business when a thug tries to take the officers weapon. When a thug is being stopped by LEO and he knows he is going to jail, the hardcores aint got nothing to lose. Now when was the last time a nonLEO initiated contact with a thug with handcuffs ready?

I live out in the country. I do ranch work for a living. Do you realize how difficult it is to conceal carry in 110 degree heat ? I don't have the luxury of airconditioning all day long like some of you office workers. Some of you need to think outside your own little world when it comes to open carry.

I realize walking down Main Ave. in Houston, Austin, or similar city, would draw very exicted attention from soccer moms and girly men, and I also realize that just getting open carry to pass is a monumental challenge in and of itself without making a bunch of compromises.

At this point in time it probably would be a good idea to strengthen CHL laws, and hit open carry next time.

With all due respect,

Dan

(edited for spelling)

[EricS76]

Phddan-

I really don't like citeing things because it takes up way too much of my time! Also, I can't cite a case like that because no one knows the criminals reasons for why he does something but himself. We all know that there have been cases where officers have had their guns taken from them and most of the time used on them. Seems irrelevant as to why he took it, the end result is the same either way.

I too live in the country and do ranch work. When I'm in the pasture, I usually carry a Ruger Bisley Vaquero .44 mag in an El Paso Saddlery #44 western rig. Unless you are working on public land, you're legal to open carry. Open carry in private land is legal. I believe a person can even open carry in their yard, but I'm 100%. It's been a while since i took my CHL class. Maybe someone can help me out on that.

Seems that we share the same little world.

[nitrogen]

I agree with everything Charles said. I wouldn't want open carry if it could result if more significant restructions in the future.

Having said that, I got to open carry when I was outside of Las Vegas, in NV over the weekend.

I loved every minuite of it.

I'd love to be able to legally do that here.
It felt good to be able to say, with my actions, "This is who I am, and if you don't like it, TOUGH!"

[EricS76]

Phddan-

I really don't like citeing things because it takes up way too much of my time! Also, I can't cite a case like that because no one knows the criminals reasons for why he does something but himself. We all know that there have been cases where officers have had their guns taken from them and most of the time used on them. Seems irrelevant as to why he took it, the end result is the same either way.

I too live in the country and do ranch work. When I'm in the pasture, I usually carry a Ruger Bisley Vaquero .44 mag in an El Paso Saddlery #44 western rig. Unless you are working on public land, you're legal to open carry. Open carry in private land is legal. I believe a person can even open carry in their yard, but I'm 100%. It's been a while since i took my CHL class. Maybe someone can help me out on that.

Seems that we share the same little world.

I will take the time to cite this one though

http://www.lcav.org/states/texas.asp#ca ... ledweapons

It is a Class A misdemeanor to openly carry a handgun on or about the person. Texas Gov't Code § 46.02. The offense becomes a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a state permit for the sale of alcoholic beverages. Id. The provision does not apply to various law enforcement officers, military personnel, and security officers, to most persons on their own premises or premises under their control, to persons who are “traveling,� or to persons who are engaging in (including going to or from) a lawful hunting or sporting activity. Section 46.15.

[phddan]

EricS76-

What I was trying to say was, the fact that LEO's have their weapons taken from their person is because they are confronting a thug, with the possibility of that thug going to the slammer, something they dont fear in non LEO's. Because we are not confronting them, unless something they do directly involves us.

I make my living doing ranch work, which means I travel all over doing work, not just on my 30 acres.

Dan

[EricS76]

EricS76-

What I was trying to say was, the fact that LEO's have their weapons taken from their person is because they are confronting a thug, with the possibility of that thug going to the slammer, something they dont fear in non LEO's. Because we are not confronting them, unless something they do directly involves us.

I make my living doing ranch work, which means I travel all over doing work, not just on my 30 acres.

Dan

I'll agree with that to a point, but I don't think the assumption can be made that a criminal took an officers gun because they had nothing to lose in every case of an officer gun-grab. I'm sure most happen after a confrontation, but some do not. What I'm trying to say is that criminals are opportunistic. Some may see someone open carrying and say "i'll stay away from the guy with the gun". Some may say "I think i'll try to take that guy's gun." The undisputable fact is that if that same person is concealed carrying, the criminal doesn't know if he's carrying or not. If he does want to confront a person carrying concealed, the concealed carrier has the advantage because the would-be attacker either doesn't think he's carrying, or at least doesn't know he's carrying.

I too have to travel all over. When I'm in town, or public in general, I go to my 1911 or S&W in a IWB holster. I throw a jacket on if it's cool, or wear an untucked shirt if it's hot. It's not that big a deal to me. I'd do the same if open carry was legal.

[stevie_d_64]

The passion on both sides of this issue is absolutely commendable!!!

I am glad to know most of the folks commenting on this issue personally!!!

I cannot for the life of me, throw rocks at the legal and political downside to this topic...Nor to the tactical arguments presented...

In watching this open carry debate here and in a few other forums, I have yet to see anyone who has said they do, or for that matter have the law allow them to open carry in their state have any problems other than the occasional dress down by Law Enforcement for whatever reason...And thats not necessarily a bad thing, or a bad encounter in some ways...

I would love to hear of some incidents of weapon retention failure, or some bad guy make a move on one of our communities participants in these forums...To be honest I go out of my way to find an incident like that to tuck away in the memory bank...I really haven't seen one...That doesn't mean it hasn't happened...

I do believe it has happen more to uniformed Law Enforcement, more than it has to civilians in Open Carry states though...But that still does not reduce the risk or responsibility to non Law Enforcement folks for that particular risk...

The saving grace to all of this is if it does come to Texas, I do not believe we will see a big implementation of this option if it does...I do believe I will not be surprised, nor wary, if I do see someone else carry in this manner...

All I can do is be mindful of why I do it...It does not dwell on how, and with what I do it with...I do it because it amplifies my:

Maturity, Respect, Responsibilty, Accountability and overall Attitude...

I cannot be anything less...

And if Open Carry in the state of Texas becomes an option, it becomes double in my book..."IF" I choose to exercise that option...

[KBCraig]

I will take the time to cite this one though

http://www.lcav.org/states/texas.asp#ca ... ledweapons

It is a Class A misdemeanor to openly carry a handgun on or about the person.

The Texas law on Unlawfully Carrying a Weapon makes no distinction between open or concealed, loaded or not. Unlicensed carry is the same crime, open or not.

Kevin

[KBCraig]

EricS76-

What I was trying to say was, the fact that LEO's have their weapons taken from their person is because they are confronting a thug, with the possibility of that thug going to the slammer, something they dont fear in non LEO's. Because we are not confronting them, unless something they do directly involves us.

Dan, I tried to make the same point earlier. You're exactly right. I'm unaware of any case in which a cop on the streets of America was assaulted solely for his gun. Ever case I'm aware of has involved the officer trying to effect an arrest.

Kevin