Two men came at me in the Parking Lot Tonite!

[03Lightningrocks]

There's a fine line between vigilance and paranoia.

With all due respect, there's also a fine line between living and dying. Why even bother being vigilant? Are you not worried someone will see you and shout, "paranoid"? I just don't understand all the cries of "paranoid" from folks who own and carry guns around.

With all due respect, if these guys are giving you the willies:

mormons.jpg

Well... I'm not going to say it.

I believe some folks are way more timid and afraid than others and that is why they get their CHL. Some because of physical disabilities, some because the bully always seems to choose them as the target. Personally, drawing a deadly weapon would be way down my list of how to confront spammers. Especially clean cut spammers.

For instance, In this situation I would simply have told the two spammers not interested as they approached. They keep coming I say, go away, I am not interested. They keep talking about god to me? I would say hey... go away. They start in about Jesus saving my soul... I pull my gun and start blasting.

[mctowalot]

I hate to sound like a TSA employee here, but IMHO it's disturbing that some seem to think clean-cut = zero threat.
The BTK (Bind, Torture, Kill) serial killer was a "nice, clean-cut, chruch going" sort of fellow. The forum rules prevent me from describing this maniac's activity but you can research it on your own - he was a monster!
I once had a chat with a "reformed" badguy, (he had just been released after serving a portion of a 15 year prison sentence).
He told me how his "gang" would scope out prospective houses to rob by sending the youngest and clean-cut looking member of the gang knocking on the door. If no answer it was burglary time! If someone did come to the door the cleancut badguy had a cover story ready - like handing out a church flier or that he was collecting for charity. They thought it was so funny when he would return to the truck with a "donation".
So our theory is don't live your life scared of everyone, just be prepared for the worst from anyone.

[ScottDLS]

If they're LDS...it's OK to let 'em approach as long as you aren't drinking Jehovah Witnesses get drawn on at 30 paces if you are Roman Catholic, 20 if you are Jewish (both Orthodox and Reform), and 15 for Evangelical and Mainline Protestants. It's all the the CHL handbook...

People approaching me in public proselytizing kind of annoys me, but you've gotta think, they're the ones that need a CHL. I've seen a few LDS guys on their bikes get eggs and beer cans thrown at them out of moving cars. Ouch.

Also, seems like a true exercise of the first amendment. They just might want to take advantage of the second also.

[KD5NRH]

I hate to sound like a TSA employee here, but IMHO it's disturbing that some seem to think clean-cut = zero threat.

What? You mean we shouldn't trust guys like this well-dressed gentleman just on looks?


What about this political activist?


And surely this guy is just the average, everyday citizen he appears to be.


See what trusting the well-dressed, clean cut guys can get you?

[drjoker]

i dont like those guys that go around trying to convert you.usually when they come to my door i ask if they want to have a 3 some.

They also seem to be a bit naive and unworldly.

That's because they're probably home schooled. Studies show that home schooled kids are less likely to experience teen sex, teen pregnancy, bullying, and score much higher on the SAT. The downside is that they're often naive and unworldly. But, if everyone were naive and unworldly, would that be such a bad thing?

[wgoforth]

i dont like those guys that go around trying to convert you.usually when they come to my door i ask if they want to have a 3 some.

They also seem to be a bit naive and unworldly.

That's because they're probably home schooled. Studies show that home schooled kids are less likely to experience teen sex, teen pregnancy, bullying, and score much higher on the SAT. The downside is that they're often naive and unworldly. But, if everyone were naive and unworldly, would that be such a bad thing?

I was told that our kids would grow up to be wimps if they were homeschooled and not bullied in the public system. I suggested that I could just bully them in homeschool as part of their training... I was then told no, that would be child abuse....hmmmmmm. BTW, my full scholarshiped 2 sons also fared better on the ACT. One to OSU and one at ASU. The next one only got a measly $14,000 scholarship, the slacker. Should have bullied him more!

[bdickens]

I'm not accusing anyone here of this - and certainly not the OP - but some people after they start carrying a gun for protection start seeing everyone they encounter out on the street as a potential threat. That is not healthy and it is not good situational awareness.

Speaking of situational awareness, I got a chuckle out of the very first response applauding the OP's. If the OP had good situational awareness, he would have noticed the two young men approaching him and identified them as probable Mormon missionaries long before they got as close to him as they apparently did.

Situational awareness is more than just seeing everyone who is out there. It is also about ascertaining their intentions. It also includes taking note of the "lay of the land," the general mood of a place and even the weather.

I see much harping in this thread about clean-cut looking criminals and how just because someone looks respectable doesn't mean he has good intentions. This is where ascertaining someone's intentions - sizing him up - comes into play. Body language, mannerisms and speech patterns will tell you what you need to know almost every time. I've never seen a Mormon missionary whose body language and mannerisms indicate a threat.

Reccomended reading is The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. It should be required reading. Read it, study it's lessons and they might not just save your life, they might also save you the embarassment of jumping into Condition Orange when approached by Mormon missionaries giving away DVDs.

[Oldgringo]

with bdickens.

Some, more than a few, of the multitudinous posts/questions on this forum about various everyday "what-if" situations are downright silly - to say the LEAST.

[marksiwel]

since when did situational awareness mean I can x-ray through Cars? They came at me from the left, in a FULL Parking lot, from between two cars. They weren't strolling through the lanes, they were walking between the cars (Suspicious much?) I saw them as soon as they came from around the Car in front of me (maybe 15 feet? about where do most CHL shooting happens in distance btw? Less than 15 feet)
I IDed them as Mormans almost instantly, but that doesnt mean Bad Guys dont dress up now does it?
http://www.wftv.com/news/22869188/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Man Dresses up like a Cop)

Did I draw down on them? No. I did move my shirt so I could draw easier, and I undid the safety on my KeyChain Pepper spray.

People sneaking up on you in the Dark in a Parking lot = Condition orange atleast.

I really did post this in a joking way (Original title before I changed it was "Ah! Mormans!")

But what kind of Morman hangs out in dark parking lots at 9pm at night?
I stand by my actions

[mctowalot]

I stand by marksiwel's actions as well. I don't think he acted "silly" when he (discretely) positioned himself and his gear to take defensive action if needed. It's not like he drew on them and shouted "back off". Some of us provided a few examples of "cleancut" badguys. I'm sure their victims felt "silly" about trusting them when they were being tortured/raped/murdered.
So ya'll leave me (scratching my head).
You're both old-timers on the forum and I don't recall either of you ever refering to anybody as "silly" for contemplating "what ifs".

What part of "don't live in fear of everyone but be prepared for the worst from anyone" eluded you?

Edited to add: The tone of your posts have me wondering: what does it take to get you "concerned"? Is there a "redflag" you could share with us?

[KD5NRH]

some people after they start carrying a gun for protection start seeing everyone they encounter out on the street as a potential threat. That is not healthy and it is not good situational awareness.

Yeah, us sensible people didn't wait until we started carrying.

Situational awareness is more than just seeing everyone who is out there. It is also about ascertaining their intentions.

Things like noticing that the "Mormon missionaries" weren't wearing nametags.

[marksiwel]

The Real question is, What do I do with this DVD, I feel bad "Throwing it Away" because it would feel like throwing away a Bible to me in a way. Halfprice Books wont take it btw, I tried (thats what I did with my old Bible btw)

[mctowalot]

Hang it in the backyard and enjoy the colorfull patterns it will cast in the sunlight. Then you can meditate while considering the "what ifs" of the world. :)

[KD5NRH]

The Real question is, What do I do with this DVD, I feel bad "Throwing it Away" because it would feel like throwing away a Bible to me in a way. Halfprice Books wont take it btw, I tried (thats what I did with my old Bible btw)

The data sides of two CDs running against each other will make a pretty decent bearing for a telescope. For smoother action, one CD, data side up, with three of those teflon slider pads made for furniture running against it gives a really slick action with very little backlash.

Stick it out at 100 yards and practice shooting through the hole. Feel bad briefly if you miss.

Line an old C-band satellite dish with them to use as a solar concentrator and cook hot dogs in seconds.

Tesla Turbine

[Oldgringo]

...multitudinous (and repetitive ) posts/questions...

I apologize, I left out the two key words in italics.