.380 Underpowered for self defense?

[USA1]

Has the .380 ammo situation gotten any better?

I believe it is.
I'm seeing signs that it's becoming more available as of the last couple of months.
Flash back to this time last year, there was none to be found.

[handog]

Has the .380 ammo situation gotten any better?

I have had real hard time finding 380 ammo. When I did find a gun store in Austin I asked how many boxes they had. I was told it doesn't matter; there is a one box limit.

[Oldgringo]

If you've ever had a gun pointed at you with bad intentions behind it, you'll know that a barrel on a .25 looks to be about the same diameter as a garbage can.

True but if I pull out a gun someone is going to die; me or the bad guy, preferably the bad guy. No pointing.

If two guys wearing white shirts and ties get off their bicycles and approach you and your wife in the grocery store parking lot, shoot first; with your .380 acp, and ask questions later. Who knows what devilment they may be up to?

[A-R]

The 380 is a backup gun and a poor one at that. With similar sized 9mm and 38SP+P guns out on the market, I don't understand why people keep buying them other than price. The manufacturers crank them out because they are relatively cheap to manufacture (fixed barrel blowback action)
...

For the size of a pocket 380 you could get a 9mm Kahr, a Keltec 9 or an Airweight J-frame

I disagree with this assessment. I own multiple J-frames, have owned the smallest non-.380 Kahr made, and have seen both Kel Tec 9mm up close and compared all of these guns to an LCP/Kel Tec .380 sized pistol and the .380s are CONSIDERABLY smaller and easier to conceal. An LCP is about the size of .22s and .25s from 20 years ago. About the size of the old Saturday Night Special Lorcin and Jennings pocket .25 autos (and a night/day improvement in functionality and reliability).

Sure, there are 9mm that compare in size to a Walther PPK-size .380. And I'd agree you're probably better off buying a smallish 9mm than a Walther PPK these days. But the new pocket .380s have reduced the size thresh-hold quite a bit.

My regular EDC pocket gun is a J-frame. But in certain circumstances (tight pants or small pockets) I can't properly conceal a J-frame in my pocket. That's when I reach for my LCP. I don't carry it that often anymore, but I'm glad I have it in case I need it.

I also like it as a small unobtrusive backup for pocket carry or even ankle carry when I'm belt-carrying a larger pistol.

I think to completely dismiss the ever-growing class of tiny pocket .380s as viable option (a "last resort", if you will) is a misake.

[5thGenTexan]

Handog go for the Kahr either 9 or 40 in the PM, P, or CW but consider checking prices at your next gun show prices should be better than Cabellas. I've never seen Cabellas pricing worth a trip out of the way to buy from them. As a place to look at and handle multiple weapons I wanted to look at maybe but the selection at the gunshows blows them away and price wise I've got to say the Academy, then the gun show, or even my favorite range will be less expensive.

[Embalmo]

[quote="gringop"]The 380 is a backup gun and a poor one at that. With similar sized 9mm and 38SP+P guns out on the market, I don't understand why people keep buying them other than price. The manufacturers crank them out because they are relatively cheap to manufacture (fixed barrel blowback action)

Do a little research on the "cheap blowback operated" Bersa Thunder and you'll find that it one of the most accurate, reliable guns on the market and usually superior to guns costing triple; and it kicks like a water pistol, so it's real easy to put another shot next to the first one. And let's not forget that most people are killed with .22s and 9MMs. Bad guys will not rape, murder, or rob someone who is pointing a .380 at them, and they will not continue to rape, murder, or rob someone with a couple .380 JHPs in their chest or belly.

Embalmo

[Embalmo]

My favorite carry is my Bersa Ultra Compact 9, and when clothes and environs necessitate, it's my LCP (Crimson Trace). In the winter I've been known to also carry my little snubby .22 just 'cause I can. I never feel undergunned with my 9MM; I consider it a .380 Magnum.

M. Ball Moe

[NcongruNt]

I call it marginal.

If you do carry a .380, look at all the ballistic tests you can. IMO, FMJ is superior to JHP in the .380 because it has better penetration.

Whoa, when did you sign up here? (You may remember me as John the Texaner). Good to see you.

[iratollah]

The question is best answered in a relative sense. Underpowered compared to what?

My LCP is a superior choice to my almost 30 year old Beretta Model 21 Bobcat in .25 caliber, which is a fine handgun. The .380 is also much more effective for SD than a pocket knife, which most reading this carry regularly. If with a CHL you dress around the gun, a P220 is concealable but may simply not be practical, stylish or fashionable.

If you've ever had a gun pointed at you with bad intentions behind it, you'll know that a barrel on a .25 looks to be about the same diameter as a garbage can.

True but if I pull out a gun someone is going to die; me or the bad guy, preferably the bad guy. No pointing.

If this is your decision, then I trust you keep the phone number of your criminal defense attorney taped to the back of your CHL.

While there are no hard statistics, NRA claims that there are tens of thousands of episodes each year where armed civilians defused a dangerous situation simply by brandishing. Twice I've reluctantly displayed a weapon to terminate very dangerous situations and I had both the good fortune and good judgment to not discharge the weapon. The weapon served its purpose in protecting me. It may be more correct to say that if the gun comes out you must be prepared to use it. In both of those situations a pocket knife would not have solved my problems, but anything >.22 would have sufficed.

If someone already has the drop on you, it may be reasonable to presume that neither Quickdraw McGraw nor Wyatt Earp would apply handog's philosophy.

[mkosmo]

My first carry gun was a Bersa Thunder .380 with CorBon DPX, and I'd trust my life to it. The weapon is reliable (except with 95gr Magtech FMJ), accurate, and well broken in. I just yesterday picked up a Rock Island 1911 that will likely replace it as my primary carry weapon because I'd trust that .45 a little bit more, but the .380 will remain a tool in my carry belt when it is needed.

I don't know where people get off saying it won't penetrate aluminum foil, but the ballistics gelatin looks good enough for me, and its good enough to stop my threat. Maybe we should all wear aluminum foil armor

[mkosmo]

Has the .380 ammo situation gotten any better?

I believe it is.
I'm seeing signs that it's becoming more available as of the last couple of months.
Flash back to this time last year, there was none to be found.

Here on the west side of Houston shelves are still as bare as they were this time last year from what I've seen.

[The Annoyed Man]

I own two .380 pistols. One is a Keltec, the other a Colt Government. Neither has ever been even close to 100% functionally reliable, regardless of ammo type, and they represent both ends of the value spectrum. Shooting ball ammo for its penetration has been mentioned previously in this thread. All I can say is that both of my .380 pistols actually feed JHP more reliably than ball, and JHP reliability is not that good in either.

The Colt Government is a really nice, well-built pistol with a slide like butter. The Keltec is a cheap piece of junk which has the habit of self-ejecting the magazine during carry. All I can say is, my life is worth more than what either gun can provide me in terms of self-defense, if there are other choices available... ...and there are other choices available to me.

I fully understand that my J frame 642 is not as flat as either pistol (although it definitely weighs less than the Colt), but it isn't that much bigger either. It is dwarfed by my 3" Kimber, which is itself a pretty small pistol. But when I combine the "nearly as small-ness" of the J frame with the higher power of the .38 Special +P cartridge, and the rock-ribbed reliability of a revolver, it is very hard for me to mitigate in favor of carrying one of my .380s.

I hang onto the Colt because it is a beautiful gun and rapidly becoming a real collector's item (mine is cherry). I hang onto the Keltec because.... because... I don't know... maybe just against the day when simply nothing else will do, as hard as that may be for me to imagine. But I find it very hard to justify carrying either one when I have better alternatives available to me.

As to the caliber's effectiveness, I'm not volunteering to step in front of one, but anybody who has worked in an ER long enough (as I have) will tell you that the .380 is not the most effective round. It just isn't. And although this horse has been flogged many times on this forum, and although no pistol caliber is guaranteed to be a 1 shot man-stopper, as caliber increases, the odds of that being the outcome do go up considerably. The simple truth is that caliber is not a guarantee, but all factors being taken into account, including the psychological processes involved in being shot, the bigger the bullet, the more likely the incapacitation. I pray that I never have to shoot somebody. I really don't want to have to do it. But if I have to do it, I want the person to stay shot and be hit hard enough that, if not physically incapacitated by being shot, they will be at least psychologically incapacitated. Based on what I know from 6 years of working in an ER, I just have greater confidence in more powerful calibers in that regard, and the .380 doesn't really inspire that kind of confidence in me.

I realize that it is fine for others... just not for me.

[frazzled]

Has the .380 ammo situation gotten any better?

No.

[glbedd53]

When I bought the Sig P-230 about 15 yrs ago I picked it for Sigs reputation for reliability and it has lived up to it. I love my 1911's but my Sigs are the only handguns I own that have never malfunctioned in any way.

[handog]

I don't know where people get off saying it won't penetrate aluminum foil, but the ballistics gelatin looks good enough for me, and its good enough to stop my threat. Maybe we should all wear aluminum foil armor

Or you could just catch the .380 bullet with your teeth.

From what I gather from the more knowledgeable members here is that with the "marginal" stopping power of the .380, the bad guy may theoretically be able to get a shot off after being wounded therefore putting my life in danger. The questionable stopping power and the apparent 380 ammo shortage
(when I asked for 380 at the academy they laughed) makes me second guess my Kahr 380 purchase. Should have went with the PM9.

Next question: What do you tell your wife when she asks why you need so many guns?