Utah or Texas ? Or.....Both ?

[Keith]

I have both and highly recommend too get both. The reason is if you are ever involved in a defensive shooting you are going to temp lose your license until the courts fig out what happened. In the meen time how are you defending yourself or your family when you are out and about in public. If I lost my Texas due to the above I could still carry legally in Texas as the police wouldnt have taken my Utah license they wouldnt even know about it. I put the Utah in the gun safe its there only for such a day that I hope never happens.

[TXlaw1]

Seems like any store that would sponsor or allow use of facilities or whatever for such Utah only instructors should think more highly of their customers than to let the be misled. I didn't realize any such shenanigans were going on. Could it be the big city atmosphere? Just wondering.

Edit - I sent the above post before I realized there were two more pages of comments. I had not seen Keith's post which I've replied to separately.

[TXlaw1]

I have both and highly recommend too get both. The reason is if you are ever involved in a defensive shooting you are going to temp lose your license until the courts fig out what happened. In the meen time how are you defending yourself or your family when you are out and about in public. If I lost my Texas due to the above I could still carry legally in Texas as the police wouldnt have taken my Utah license they wouldnt even know about it. I put the Utah in the gun safe its there only for such a day that I hope never happens.

Now that's an interesting comment, Keith, that changes the perspective and possible focus of this thread. Having both could be a good strategy in the situation you describe. I'd like to hear comments by others who have both licenses. Does anyone (or anyone you might know) have any experience using this dual-license strategy?

[chartreuse]

I have both and highly recommend too get both. The reason is if you are ever involved in a defensive shooting you are going to temp lose your license until the courts fig out what happened. In the meen time how are you defending yourself or your family when you are out and about in public. If I lost my Texas due to the above I could still carry legally in Texas as the police wouldnt have taken my Utah license they wouldnt even know about it. I put the Utah in the gun safe its there only for such a day that I hope never happens.

Now that's an interesting comment, Keith, that changes the perspective and possible focus of this thread. Having both could be a good strategy in the situation you describe. I'd like to hear comments by others who have both licenses. Does anyone (or anyone you might know) have any experience using this dual-license strategy?

Is that correct, though? People have mentioned, in the past, the utility of having a UT permit in case you misplace your TX one, to tide you over until the replacement arrives, which appears very straightforward. But, in a case where the state temporarily suspended your TX license, has it actually suspended your right to carry? And, if that were the case, would carrying on a UT permit open a can of worms?

[03Lightningrocks]

I have both and highly recommend too get both. The reason is if you are ever involved in a defensive shooting you are going to temp lose your license until the courts fig out what happened. In the meen time how are you defending yourself or your family when you are out and about in public. If I lost my Texas due to the above I could still carry legally in Texas as the police wouldnt have taken my Utah license they wouldnt even know about it. I put the Utah in the gun safe its there only for such a day that I hope never happens.

Now that's an interesting comment, Keith, that changes the perspective and possible focus of this thread. Having both could be a good strategy in the situation you describe. I'd like to hear comments by others who have both licenses. Does anyone (or anyone you might know) have any experience using this dual-license strategy?

I am not sure that this is true. The part about loosing your right to carry conceal. Why would the law require I discontinue the right to have a CHL after a legit self defense shooting? Second.... if the law does require temporary loss of your right to carry concealed in Texas, trying to circunmvent that law by using a Utah CFP is sure to make the Judge mad enough to throw the book at you.

I have to just shake my head at some of the stuff i read in here. Folks!!!!!! If something legal says you can't carry concealed in Texas.... no other State can over ride that something while in texas! Even while carrying under Utah CFP in Texas, laws of Texas apply.

There are a few legitimate reasons to have a non-resident Utah CFP(beyond cool factor). Getting two additional states added to the list of places you can carry is one i can think of. Can't afford a texas is another I can come up with. Nice to have the expire dates offset so while waiting on the texas renewal would be another. Circumventing Texas Law is not a good reason!!!!

I have been involved in two self defense shootings. One of them the cops didn't even take the gun I used. The other got real expensive and they took the gun. Neither forbid me the right to own a firearm. If either had done this, i know for a fact i would have gotten thrown in jail if carrying concealed and used the stupid excuse of having a permit from some other state. LOL.

[sjfcontrol]

I am not sure that this is true. The part about loosing your right to carry conceal. Why would the law require I discontinue the right to have a CHL after a legit self defense shooting? Second.... if the law does require temporary loss of your right to carry concealed in Texas, trying to circunmvent that law by using a Utah CFP is sure to make the Judge mad enough to throw the book at you.

I have to just shake my head at some of the stuff i read in here. Folks!!!!!! If something legal says you can't carry concealed in Texas.... no other State can over ride that something while in texas! Even while carrying under Utah CFP in Texas, laws of Texas apply.

There are a few legitimate reasons to have a non-resident Utah CFP(beyond cool factor). Getting two additional states added to the list of places you can carry is one i can think of. Can't afford a texas is another I can come up with. Nice to have the expire dates offset so while waiting on the texas renewal would be another. Circumventing Texas Law is not a good reason!!!!

I have been involved in two self defense shootings. One of them the cops didn't even take the gun I used. The other got real expensive and they took the gun. Neither forbid me the right to own a firearm. If either had done this, i know for a fact i would have gotten thrown in jail if carrying concealed and used the stupid excuse of having a permit from some other state. LOL.

How do you "know that for a fact"? You weren't carrying on a Utah license, so your experience is irrelevant to this situation.

The fact is that Texas recognizes the Utah license as a license to carry a concealed handgun. It in no way is dependent on having or not having a Texas CHL. It is a valid license. That's a fact. If the judge want to throw the book at someone, he better read it first. The problem is that Texas suspends your license when you've been ACCUSED of a crime. (Guilty until proven innocent.) Utah revokes the license when you're found guilty. However, feel free not to get or use a Utah license under those conditions if you feel like it's cheating.

And you don't loose your right to have or carry a handgun when your Texas CHL is suspended or revoked. You still have Castle and MPA. So why wouldn't a Utah license work too?

[The Annoyed Man]

I have both and highly recommend too get both. The reason is if you are ever involved in a defensive shooting you are going to temp lose your license until the courts fig out what happened. In the meen time how are you defending yourself or your family when you are out and about in public. If I lost my Texas due to the above I could still carry legally in Texas as the police wouldnt have taken my Utah license they wouldnt even know about it. I put the Utah in the gun safe its there only for such a day that I hope never happens.

Now that's an interesting comment, Keith, that changes the perspective and possible focus of this thread. Having both could be a good strategy in the situation you describe. I'd like to hear comments by others who have both licenses. Does anyone (or anyone you might know) have any experience using this dual-license strategy?

I am not sure that this is true. The part about loosing your right to carry conceal. Why would the law require I discontinue the right to have a CHL after a legit self defense shooting? Second.... if the law does require temporary loss of your right to carry concealed in Texas, trying to circunmvent that law by using a Utah CFP is sure to make the Judge mad enough to throw the book at you.

I have to just shake my head at some of the stuff i read in here. Folks!!!!!! If something legal says you can't carry concealed in Texas.... no other State can over ride that something while in texas! Even while carrying under Utah CFP in Texas, laws of Texas apply.

I have both, and here is my interpretation, based on a possible scenario of having my Texas CHL temporarily suspended pending the outcome of a self-defense shooting investigation for a shooting which occurred in Texas:

1. The shooting occurred in Texas, and therefore is not under Utah jurisdiction, and therefore Utah is not going to suspend my CFP pending the outcome of the investigation, so my CFP is still valid, while my CHL is temporarily invalid.
2. The CFP is issued by Utah, and Texas has no jurisdiction over whether or not Utah issues, or continues to recognize, my CFP. Only Utah has jurisdiction over that.
3. Thus, while Texas may very well suspend my CHL privileges under CHL law, it has no jurisdiction over my CFP, which was issued by another sovereign state. While most reputable CHL instructors will not teach the CFP class to someone who does not hold a CHL first, there is no requirement under Utah CFP law that a non-resident CFP holder must first have a permit from their state of residence to obtain the non-resident CFP.

I fully admit that this may be wishful thinking on my part, but I would hope that it would pass a legal review if it ever came to pass. The reason it is a concern is that, depending on who I shot, and whether or not I actually killed that person, that is the time that I would most be worried about reprisals from the BG's family or friends. In any case, I wouldn't be carrying into the courtroom anyway, CFP or not, so I don't know how the judge might reasonably be expected to know that I'm carrying a firearm when I'm outside the courtroom.

There are a few legitimate reasons to have a non-resident Utah CFP(beyond cool factor). Getting two additional states added to the list of places you can carry is one i can think of. Can't afford a texas is another I can come up with. Nice to have the expire dates offset so while waiting on the texas renewal would be another. Circumventing Texas Law is not a good reason!!!!

I have been involved in two self defense shootings. One of them the cops didn't even take the gun I used. The other got real expensive and they took the gun. Neither forbid me the right to own a firearm. If either had done this, i know for a fact i would have gotten thrown in jail if carrying concealed and used the stupid excuse of having a permit from some other state. LOL.

You actually pick up three states, not two. Not a big deal, but I just thought I would let you know. Those states are Washington, Ohio, and West Virginia. I have my expiration dates for my CHL and CFP offset by approximately 1 year, for the reasons you state. I don't have my CFP for the purpose of circumventing CHL law by using the CFP as a alternative (rather than an adjunct) to my CHL; but as I explained above, I would hope that my CFP would continue to be in play if my CHL were temporarily suspended pending the results of an investigation.

And as I've stated previously, both in this thread (IIRC) and other threads, I would consult my attorney at that time rather than take as gospel those hypothetical arguments offered online today. And 03Lightningrocks, it's not because I don't believe that your real life experiences are valid today, but because things are changing, mostly for the better recently, and whatever strictures applied when you had to deal with that may no longer apply down the road if/when (God forbid) it should ever happen to me.

[tacticool]

Circumventing Texas Law is not a good reason!!!!

I agree. However, if an off duty cop carries without a CHL, they're not circumventing the law. Neither is an off duty waitress with a valid Utah license, regardless of whether her Texas license is expired, suspended (maybe forgot to change her address) or she never had one.

[Keith]

Annoyed Man--sjf control Well written. I couldnt have said it better. I should also be more clear as not lose license but have it suspended while under investigation. 03lightningrocks I dont know how to respond . Cool factor (please tell me your kidding) All I can say is if you have been through 2 defensive shootings with 2 very different outcomes. That just proves my point that there a good chance your going to lose something in a defensive shooting. Or in your case there is a 50% chance. Im not willing to take that chance. If my license is suspended there is no law saying I cant carry if I have a valid license from another state. Well just agree to just disagree in this situation. Hey if ya dont like what ya read you can allways just go to the next topic.

[03Lightningrocks]

Annoyed Man--sjf control Well written. I couldnt have said it better. I should also be more clear as not lose license but have it suspended while under investigation. 03lightningrocks I dont know how to respond . Cool factor (please tell me your kidding) All I can say is if you have been through 2 defensive shootings with 2 very different outcomes. That just proves my point that there a good chance your going to lose something in a defensive shooting. Or in your case there is a 50% chance. Im not willing to take that chance. If my license is suspended there is no law saying I cant carry if I have a valid license from another state. Well just agree to just disagree in this situation. Hey if ya dont like what ya read you can allways just go to the next topic.

Same goes for you. If ya dont like what I have to say because it won't plug into your fantasy world of what if's? You don't have to read my posts.

I am a strong dose of reality that hopefully will keep someone here from doing something real darned stupid concerning concealed carry.

I will remind you of this. No matter where you aquire your CHL or CFP, you are to obey the laws of the State you are in at the present time. If texas says no to your ability to carry in the State of Texas, you are dreaming wild, thinking the court is going to to say you are exempt because of a CHL/CFP from some other state.... good luck with that one if the situation developes for you.

[03Lightningrocks]

By the way.... the reason I said "cool factor" was that I met a guy in a Crossfire utah class that had carry permits from several states. i can't remember how many, but it was many. I asked him why he did this and he said it was kind of a hobby for him... collecting carry permits. I can see no reason to have permits from all states other than it is just fun to do it. "Cool factor".

I admit.... I did think it was a pretty cool thing.

[Keith]

Thanks for your reply. Its been fun. Ill add two more things then im done . I def live in no fantasy world.

With my job ive seen more people shot,killed,murdered in one year then the average person will see in a lifetime. Ive talked with several officers and my lawyer who all seem to agree that you will have your license suspended at the very least if you are involved in a shooting pending the court outcome. I would consider yourself to be the unusual case that you didnt have this happen to you.

I can see the court saying your Texas CHL is suspended not that all other state CHLs are also suspended. Besides if I was to get stopped in Texas I dont see were the officer would have any info of a judge saying I couldnt carry if I had a legal out of state license. The officer would have no info of a court case pending. You wouldnt carry or couldnt carry due too no legal permit. I could and would continue too as it would not be breaking the law. Thats no fantasy its my legal right. Take care.

[duckhead]

Unlike some of the other guys giving advice here, I'm not a lawyer so this is not legal advice.

As I understand it, unless and until you're convicted, you can still carry in your car and on your own property without a license from any state.

Anywhere else, you have to ask yourself whether you would rather be unarmed when a criminal attacks you, or defend yourself and fight the weapon charge in court. That's a decision every man has to make for himself, because he's the one who is going to live, or die, with the consequences.

[The Annoyed Man]

I am a strong dose of reality that hopefully will keep someone here from doing something real darned stupid concerning concealed carry.

You are a strong does of your reality, and I said I would take my lawyer's advice at that time and place over whatever advice I'm given in the here and now in the anonymity of the Internet. I just explained in my previous post what my default position is. That's all it is. I also explained that I would take my lawyer's advice. It's not that hard to understand.

You're the one who has poo-pooed other posters in other threads for being timid about when and where they will carry.

[Bart]

you are dreaming wild, thinking the court is going to to say you are exempt because of a CHL/CFP from some other state.... good luck with that one if the situation developes for you.

Thanks for the luck. That plus the Texas law that explicitly recognizes a CHL/CFP from some other states should get me through.