Finally, a CHLer is portrayed as the victim

[Oldgringo]

In light of this thread and watching the T.V. show Bait Car where law enforcement set up a very enticing but totally undefeatable Cadillac Escalade, etc. with cameras, remote control shut-off, doors-locking perps in, etc. it gave me an idea. BG's ALWAYS look for the easy prey/victim which keeps them in business longer to strike again. On the show, it doesn't take 15 seconds for several auto thieves to come out of the woodwork in bad neighborhoods.

Scenario #1
Set up the 2 young, seemingly vulnerable, women late at night in a convertible in a bad part of town in a drive through but with a little surprise in the backseat under a blanket is a well-trained, armed individual ready to put the rapist out of business.

Scenario #2
Have a friend in a different vehicle parked on the other side of the mall bring a lot of empty wrapped boxes at Christmas time through the mall to a car that you are waiting in under a blanket in the back seat armed to the teeth while she places them on the front seat and leaves the door unlocked and returns to the mall for more "shopping". Another friend with binoculars and also armed waits in a van a few rows over with a walkie-talkie to warn you if you face a van-load of attackers to get ready.

Some may find this more rewarding than deer hunting since it helps out the truly vulnerable from being victims when these people are 6 feet under ground. There were probably quite a few people that the rapist in the drive through passed up before he decided to strike the ones least able to defend themselves. This just turns the tables in the same way it would when they decide to pick the wrong house to break into that has a 12-gauge waiting on the other side.

Whoops. Game over!

{SIGH}

Sometimes, I just have to wonder if....

[mctowalot]

Ladies and gentlemen Mr. Charles Bronson!!!

[jester]

Sounds a little "vigilante" to me.

Defending yourself is one thing, but actively seeking confrontation
and dealing out justice is something else entirely.

http://www.amazon.com/Jim-Cirillos-Tale ... 1581606494

[Charles L. Cotton]

...in that context would have most women equally mad at you.

Yes, equally mad, so equally agreeing with the Taliban comment/sentiment.

You just won't quit, will you. When I said "equally mad" I mean as mad are you were when you sent me the PM. You described yourself as "fuming" and my reference was to your anger, not the other poster's anger.

Here is the PM you sent:

I've been called a woman hating muslim extremist and I amd fuming. Will you please erase this extraordinary personal attack against me?

Thank you,

Embalmo

Can we now stop airing what once was a private communication?

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I never would have thought that this topic would become so heated. The Moderators have had to edit, move or delete a number of posts that contained personal attacks and/or profanity, all by different members.

I started to lock this thread, but I truly believe the specific events and the general subject matter is a very good educational tool. The opinions have run from "how dare you criticize the victims" to "they deserved what they got" (okay, an exaggeration, but only slightly so) with many other people trying to point out the fact that we must always be aware of risks and practice risk avoidance.

Since I clearly misjudged the potential for this topic to get out of control, I guess I didn't truly appreciate the wide spectrum of opinions on this event/topic. If this thread is to remain open, the discussion must remain civil and within the rules. The subject matter of this thread is not so important as to justify leaving the thread open in the face of repeated rule violations.

Chas.

[Embalmo]

...in that context would have most women equally mad at you.

Yes, equally mad, so equally agreeing with the Taliban comment/sentiment.

You just won't quit, will you. When I said "equally mad" I mean as mad are you were when you sent me the PM. You described yourself as "fuming" and my reference was to your anger, not the other poster's anger.

Here is the PM you sent:

I've been called a woman hating muslim extremist and I amd fuming. Will you please erase this extraordinary personal attack against me?

Thank you,

Embalmo

Can we now stop airing what once was a private communication?

Chas.

Normally I can/do let things just roll off, but when it comes to being compared to an entity that we are currently fighting a war against and an entity that is killing our soldiers, no I can't just let that go. I guarantee that my grandfather wouldn't have just "let go" being called a Nazi during WWII. As I said before I'm here because of the high standards. There is really nothing else for me to say.

Embalmo

[bayouhazard]

Vigilantes go after a person after the fact. The MSM has worked hard to twist the truth, but killing a VCA in the act is not vigilantism.

Setting an ambush for criminals may be unsportsmanlike, in the same fashion as police hiding to catch speeders, but neither is vigilante action.

[JackM]

Vigilantes go after a person after the fact. The MSM has worked hard to twist the truth, but killing a VCA in the act is not vigilantism.

Setting an ambush for criminals may be unsportsmanlike, in the same fashion as police hiding to catch speeders, but neither is vigilante action.

Exactly. A vigilante is someone who illegally punishes someone for perceived offenses, or participates in a group which metes out extralegal punishment to such a person. Often the victims are criminals in the legal sense, however a vigilante may follow a different definition of criminal than the local law. Nothing is illegal about defending yourself once criminals feel that they have an easy strike.

On the T.V. show, cops fake an arrest of the Cadillac driver, then drive off with the Cadillac unlocked and keys in it, along with a lap top or X-Box inside to entice them further.

In America, you are free to dress up as a little old lady, go to an ATM and withdraw a few hundred $$ in a bad neighborhood late at night, stand there and wave it counting loudly $20, $40, $60, $80.... Then who shows up but the vermin who feel they have a right to take advantage of the weak/stupid while you pull out a 50 cal. out of the purse? If these vermin wanted to live, they would pick another business to be in. This is the reason crime goes down in areas of the nation with concealed carry. They're not sure what they are up against. Is it wrong to make them think that you are weak and stupid? When I drive around in the Prius, people wrongly think I am a weak tree hugger. I prefer not to give them a heads up with any NRA stickers either.

After all, isn't the situation exactly the same with any concealed gun carrier? We hope it NEVER happens, but inevitably, somebody feels that they can take advantage of you in some particular way for some particular reason since they have a knife or gun. Anyone could wrongly say that you are a vigilante since the criminal didn't know he didn't have the upper hand. This is why I don't like open carry, the element of surprise. They NEVER expect you to also have a gun, pull it out and defend yourself because you felt that your life was in danger. If you just fire a warning shot as another thread addressed, then the BG is attacking someone else within the hour, so do us all a favor...2 center shots, one head shot.

[Keith B]

Vigilantes go after a person after the fact. The MSM has worked hard to twist the truth, but killing a VCA in the act is not vigilantism.

Setting an ambush for criminals may be unsportsmanlike, in the same fashion as police hiding to catch speeders, but neither is vigilante action.

Exactly. A vigilante is someone who illegally punishes someone for perceived offenses, or participates in a group which metes out extralegal punishment to such a person. Often the victims are criminals in the legal sense, however a vigilante may follow a different definition of criminal than the local law. Nothing is illegal about defending yourself once criminals feel that they have an easy strike.

On the T.V. show, cops fake an arrest of the Cadillac driver, then drive off with the Cadillac unlocked and keys in it, along with a lap top or X-Box inside to entice them further.

In America, you are free to dress up as a little old lady, go to an ATM and withdraw a few hundred $$ in a bad neighborhood late at night, stand there and wave it counting loudly $20, $40, $60, $80.... Then who shows up but the vermin who feel they have a right to take advantage of the weak/stupid while you pull out a 50 cal. out of the purse? If these vermin wanted to live, they would pick another business to be in. This is the reason crime goes down in areas of the nation with concealed carry. They're not sure what they are up against. Is it wrong to make them think that you are weak and stupid? When I drive around in the Prius, people wrongly think I am a weak tree hugger. I prefer not to give them a heads up with any NRA stickers either.

After all, isn't the situation exactly the same with any concealed gun carrier? We hope it NEVER happens, but inevitably, somebody feels that they can take advantage of you in some particular way for some particular reason since they have a knife or gun. Anyone could wrongly say that you are a vigilante since the criminal didn't know he didn't have the upper hand. This is why I don't like open carry, the element of surprise. They NEVER expect you to also have a gun, pull it out and defend yourself because you felt that your life was in danger. If you just fire a warning shot as another thread addressed, then the BG is attacking someone else within the hour, so do us all a favor...2 center shots, one head shot.

Nice Wikipedia cut and paste.

No matter, 'sting operations' are for law enforcement. CHL's are NOT law enforcement. Purposely putting yourself in a situation to try and lure someone into a fight would not only be foolish, it is down right dangerous and borders on illegal IMO.

If anything like that did transpire, I think you would have a major problem trying to prove it was justifiable defense and you were not out just trying to hunt someone down that may or may not have been engaged in illegal activity.

[jester]

CHL's are NOT law enforcement.

To paraphrase Robert Peel, the only difference between the police and the public is the police are paid to perform duties which are incumbent on every citizen.

[Abraham]

jester,

"...duties which are incumbent on every citizen"

Do you mean (as stated above) those with CHL's bear a duty as citizens (without being paid) to perform LEO duties?

Or, do I misunderstand?

[KD5NRH]

Have a friend in a different vehicle parked on the other side of the mall bring a lot of empty wrapped boxes at Christmas time through the mall to a car that you are waiting in under a blanket in the back seat armed to the teeth while she places them on the front seat and leaves the door unlocked and returns to the mall for more "shopping". Another friend with binoculars and also armed waits in a van a few rows over with a walkie-talkie to warn you if you face a van-load of attackers to get ready.

It's more fun to just giftwrap some festering rotten garbage, then leave it in the back of a pickup at the mall.

Even if you don't own a pickup, there are always plenty of them available at the mall

[mctowalot]

Ever heard of the 'ol "possum in a sack" trick?

You catch a possum and stuff it in an old purse. Then set the purse down on top of a gas pump. Inevitably someone comes along for gas and notices the purse. If they they are the thieving type, they will snatch the purse up and jump back in their car. Once they get down the road they open up the stolen purse. Out comes the (hissing, growling) possum, justice and hilarity ensue!

Of course I never do anything like this, but my cousin Slinky would.

Oddly, as I posted this, my neck reddened.

Edit: (to fit this thread) Please feel free to use this trick as a means of defense or protection. All credit to cousin Slinky.

[tacticool]

I was called a radical Muslim, which I consider to be the most hideous, vile personal attack one can make to another.

Your religious prejudice is duly noted.

[Embalmo]

I was called a radical Muslim, which I consider to be the most hideous, vile personal attack one can make to another.

Your religious prejudice is duly noted.

Yep, I have a unapologetic prejudice against those who blow up children and women and sever the heads of people for the sole purpose of religious hatred. I certainly won't insult you by suggesting that you are unaware of the distinction of "radical"; I will simply apologise to you and anyone else who is offended by my opinion of radical Islam. I sincerely hope there are others here who share my prejudice.

Embalmo