quick is this sign valid or only the 30.06?

[bdickens]

Isn't this covered in the class?

[sjfcontrol]

Of course it is.

[bdickens]

Then what's with all these threads?

[sjfcontrol]

I guess some people just don't understand what was covered. Its also possible that people who haven't been to a class (and don't yet have a CHL) are asking the questions.

Or was your question rhetorical?

[Vic]

I've attended two separate CHL classes, one for myself and tagging-along with a family member for the other.

I thought the material was poorly presented overall in both of these classes. Here's a few examples (but by no means a comprehensive listing of all that was poorly done:

In the first class I went to, the instructor took around two hours on what I'd describe as "show and tell", in which he brought a dozen or so pistols he owned and showed them. In all of this time and with all of these pistols/revolvers, not once did he discuss the merits or failings of any of them for the purpose of concealed carry, or really anything other than how cool they were.

He did demonstrate a 30.06 sign, a 51% sign, and the "blue sign" (unlicensed possession sign), but did not do a proper job in describing the differences between the signs or much about where the signs might be encountered.

He did not say a single word about CPRC 83.001. There was also no discussion about conflict resolution.

The entire class was muddled and unclear. I was fortunate enough to have already discovered this forum before attending class, so it was much less confusing to me. I did make it a point to tell others in the class about this forum.

[sjfcontrol]

Were both classes taught by the same instructor? If so, why did you go back (or have your family member go back) to such a poor instructor?

Edit -- Instructors that are not covering the material as required by DPS, can be reported to DPS. They will investigate student claims of instructor misconduct.

[Vic]

(Continuation from above)

The second class was not much better. The instructor, a retired DPS and current Deputy, was anti-CHL and said so. The operative feeling was one of being rushed. The class was completed in record time; I doubt it was more than 6 hours, including range time.

There was discussion of conflict resolution, but nothing on what to carry, how to carry it, and so on.

The changes regarding carrying in churches, amusement parks, and hospitals were skipped. CPRC 83.001 was not mentioned at all.

The point is, if you were lucky enough to get in a good class with a good instructor, all of this was covered. However, for those that did not get a good class with a good instructor did not hear all of this covered in their classes. More often than not, if someone asks, 'Didn't they cover that in your class?', I have to answer in the negative.

I was lucky in that I had discovered this forum before I went to either class. I had read enough to realize when something was being skipped or given an incomplete covering. I made it a point to tell other students about this forum, and hopefully they have filled in the gaps as I did. There are obviously classes out there that are less then stellar, and it isn't ALWAYS that the student simply did not pay attention.

[sjfcontrol]

As I added above, DPS will investigate student charges of instructor misconduct. DPS REQUIRES 10-15 hours of instruction. If the class didn't last that long, DPS is very interested. Also, DPS requires coverage of certain subjects.

[A-R]

As I added above, DPS will investigate student charges of instructor misconduct. DPS REQUIRES 10-15 hours of instruction. If the class didn't last that long, DPS is very interested. Also, DPS requires coverage of certain subjects.

Please report these instructors to DPS if they are:

* Not teaching the minimum 10 hours
* Not covering the four required topics

Sec. 411.188. HANDGUN PROFICIENCY REQUIREMENT.
(b) Only a qualified handgun instructor may administer a handgun proficiency course. The handgun proficiency course must include at least 10 hours and not more than 15 hours of instruction on:
(1) the laws that relate to weapons and to the use of deadly force;
(2) handgun use, proficiency, and safety;
(3) nonviolent dispute resolution; and
(4) proper storage practices for handguns with an emphasis on storage practices that eliminate the possibility of accidental injury to a child.

[Vic]

While I agree that the instructors should be covering all the material or otherwise be reported, I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion of reporting instructors. I meant my posts merely as an example of how it is possible to go to the class, pay attention, have an interest in learning the material, and still come away with an incomplete understanding due to poor instruction.


As for the reporting, the instructor for the first class made it abundantly clear that this was one of his final classes, maybe the final one. He expounded on his health concerns for a while. I don't want that to sound callous, I did feel for his plight, but then again, that's not the subject of the class. In any case, I believe that particular problem took care of itself. I don't believe that instructor is still teaching.

As for the second, I'm not going to be the one to make a case out of it. The instructor is a 28-year veteran DPS trooper. I find it patently unrealistic to think that there would be any real inquiry. In an ideal world, that wouldn't enter into it, but we all know this isn't an ideal world.

[jhuntsman]

It must be in English and in Spanish for it to be legally binding...correct?

CHAPTER 30. BURGLARY AND CRIMINAL TRESPASS

§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

[pbwalker]

It must be in English and in Spanish for it to be legally binding...correct?

CHAPTER 30. BURGLARY AND CRIMINAL TRESPASS

§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

that's covered in the very PC you quoted here...(c)(3)(B)(i)

[jhuntsman]

lol, I know...i made the comment, found the PC and then added it to my post. I had to make sure I didn't mislead anyone!

[pbwalker]

//picture here//

article 4413 29ee

idle curiosity on my part...

What about this sign would lead you to question the enforceability for CHL's? Is it the 'list of prohibited places' or the PC reference?

[MoJo]

Several things are wrong with this sign. First wrong wording, second, MUST be in English and Spanish, third no contrasting background. I have no idea about the letter size on this sign, they MUST be 1" or larger. This sign is not valid. IMHO - - - IANAL - - - I am a CHL Instructor.