Hypothetical Situation: At your favorite restaurant

[Saintkingdom]

..."The BG takes the witness stand and, in tears, tells that jury that he never meant to hurt anyone but he suffered as a child and just needed money for his drugs to take away his pain"...

..."I would probably trying to study the BG as carefully as possible"...

in most states if you use a gun there is no way back, if its loaded your screwed! no amount of tears even a rivers worth will not wash away the fact he pointed a loaded gun in someones face with a room full of witnesses. PERIOD!!!

[Embalmo]

I've never drawn or fired on a (human) threat and it is my goal to maintain both those perfect records.

then why own a gun? why not tazers or pepper spay? they seem to suit you, better yet just softly spout "please don't" in their general direction.

Wow-I own and carry a gun in order to protect my family and myself. Though I will use deadly force if necessary, it is my goal and desire to go my entire life without needing to do so. I believe that a concealed weapon is analogous to a life insurance policy; though extremely necessary, I don't think anyone here desires to use either. Also, I believe that there are decisions that we face in life that will increase/decrease the possibility of needing to use either. I would seriously question someones ability to concealed carry whose goal/desire is to eventually draw or fire on a threat.

Embalmo

[Embalmo]

oh, its just a junkie. its ok, his life means so much more than ours! please Mr.Junkie man take what you need.

..."If the person at the register decides to not comply then that is a mistake on their part."...
I'm lovin the compassion here!

You're sarcastically loving the compassion here? I'm not a big fan of sarcasm 'round here. I think what you're missing is that, as calous as it may seem, it is indeed "ok" with us because we are not police officers, vigilantes, or superheros; we are a group of men and women who've chosen to responsibly carry a weapon to protect ourselves and our family.

Embalmo

[jester]

If the person at the register decides to not comply then that is a mistake on their part.

It depends. If they give up the money and the robber kills them in cold blood, then giving up the money was a mistake.

It's the victim's right to comply if they wish but it's also their right to shoot the armed robber if they wish. Even the penal code recognizes armed robbery as a justification for responding with deadly force.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I've never drawn or fired on a (human) threat and it is my goal to maintain both those perfect records.

then why own a gun? why not tazers or pepper spay? they seem to suit you, better yet just softly spout "please don't" in their general direction.

You can't be serious; you believe wanting to avoid using deadly force means you should not carry a firearm for times when deadly force cannot be avoided? Oh, knock off the snide comments, they aren't appreciated nor will they be tolerated.

Chas.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

saintkingdom,

I see you are brand new to our forum. Welcome.

I would suggest that you tone it down a little bit. Some of the things you were saying could be mistaken for personal attacks. Personal attacks are not welcomed around here and will get you kicked off rather quickly. There are a lot of people on this forum and not all of them are going to have the same outlook on the situation as you do. If you want to say what it is that you would do and why, great. Then maybe you could have a healthy debate with others on the subject. But don't attack others for what they say they would do. You will not like everything everyone says on here. I know I have not liked a lot of things and I know people have not liked a lot of things I have said. Thats life.

A CHL is not a Certified Hero License its a Concealed Handgun License. A lot of folks got theirs to protect them and their family and when they are out their family's safety comes before a restaurant's money. There is nothing wrong with this. This is just how they feel. To bash somebody for wanting to protect his/her family is rude. They have the right to do what they see fit as do you. Both parties will have to live with the consequences of their actions after the fact.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

I would seriously question someones ability to concealed carry whose goal/desire is to eventually draw or fire on a threat.

Embalmo

Trouble just waiting to happen.

[Oldgringo]

I've never drawn or fired on a (human) threat and it is my goal to maintain both those perfect records.

then why own a gun? why not tazers or pepper spay? they seem to suit you, better yet just softly spout "please don't" in their general direction.

You can't be serious; you believe wanting to avoid using deadly force means you should not carry a firearm for times when deadly force cannot be avoided? Oh, knock off the snide comments, they aren't appreciated nor will they be tolerated.

Chas.

Thank you, Charles.

[Oldgringo]

saintkingdom,

I see you are brand new to our forum. Welcome.

I would suggest that you tone it down a little bit. Some of the things you were saying could be mistaken for personal attacks. Personal attacks are not welcomed around here and will get you kicked off rather quickly. There are a lot of people on this forum and not all of them are going to have the same outlook on the situation as you do. If you want to say what it is that you would do and why, great. Then maybe you could have a healthy debate with others on the subject. But don't attack others for what they say they would do. You will not like everything everyone says on here. I know I have not liked a lot of things and I know people have not liked a lot of things I have said. Thats life.

A CHL is not a Certified Hero License its a Concealed Handgun License. A lot of folks got theirs to protect them and their family and when they are out their family's safety comes before a restaurant's money. There is nothing wrong with this. This is just how they feel. To bash somebody for wanting to protect his/her family is rude. They have the right to do what they see fit as do you. Both parties will have to live with the consequences of their actions after the fact.

Well said.

[Excaliber]

ok, first of all all of you who wait the situation out have lost all you best opportunities. on Sept. 11th two planes full of people waited the situation out, the third had some that did not. you say you don't want to be a "hero" but you are not even going to be proactive about your own safety? peoples lives are already at risk, how many(including yourself) are you willing to lose? you can never truly predict how a situation will end, you can however take advantage of it and steer it . this guy "appears" to be nervous and most likely is locked on to mom and the cash (is or has he been looking around?) any sudden movement will gain attention from mom causing her to look "instinctively" in your direction thus turning the BG to you. slowly slide to position yourself behind the BG where mom can not see and check the other patrons to make sure their attention is focused forward. if by chance someone is looking at you and not the action(not bloody likely), calmly smile and bring your finger to your mouth(be quiet). prepare for a "rodey run". the distance is short and you should close at the least 75% before any others turn towards you, by the time you aproch the BG if they have not been made aware of you announce yourself(tell mom to get down). turn him from mom, as the gun leaves mom's face and swings around up comes your left arm( reverse hands if he swings the other way) to block and/or graple the gun/hand. here is where you get to make a choice. 3-5 rounds to end the show or like I would do crack him in the temple till he goes down. if his other hand/arm becomes active then fire a few rounds into him. make sure his gun stays pointed up as he goes down! if by chance you were not fast enough getting to him then your gun is drawn and you still have the advantage. depending on your level of marksmanship, disable his ability to fire but dont rely on that. hand, arm, shoulder then head. a person running on adrenilene is more likely to take several center mass hits than you have in you mag. you have to STOP him first, if you hit center all 6-8 rounds he still turns and fires hitting you and/or others. take away his ability to fire and YOU are safe, ok yes and everyone else too.

pie for me
god bless texas

Please share the details of a few of the real life encounters with violent armed criminals that you've successfully managed in the past so our members can apply an appropriate level of credibility to the advice you've presented.

[mctowalot]

Ok, shoot him in the hand and then arm, got it. What happens if I get caught up in my super hero cape?

[Dragonfighter]

If you have a Glock, just make your way to the kitchen. Then you can set up behind some other Tupperware and your gun won't be visible.

You just had to go there, din'cha?

First question you have to answer - is that meal worth dying for? Because nothing is guaranteed in a gun battle.

I have had some meatloaf worth dying for but more often than not it isn't worth killin'.

Seriously, I would have to look long and hard to determine if the guy was twitchy because he was scared or because he was agitated (intoxicated). The latter may get him shot with no warning, especially if I am with family. The former I may try to talk down with the weapon drawn and at low ready. Note the use of "may" and assume the liberal application of idealism.

[Salty1]

saintkingdom, I hope to meet you someday so I will know who to stay away from. A CHL is not a license to act as a LEO or vigilante, Death Wish was a movie and trying to play a real life Charles Bronson is hazardous to the public, you should do some research on situational awareness.

From your comments it is apparent that you are itching to get your name into Armed Citizen, beware it very well may end up on an indictment issued by a Grand Jury instead.

[Beiruty]

True it is the law in tx that an armed civilian has the right to use deadly force in the defense of self and others. However, please do not explicitly details your plans on the net. that would not look good in the court. Leave it till when the time comes. What is spontaneous reaction to life threatening situation is totally different then I had a plan of do a do b etc.

[philip964]

Rather than a hypothetical situation, how does this sound:

Your in a family restaurant in Houston on Westheimer around Kirkwood. The restaurant is crowded every table is filled, you are with your wife and another couple on a Friday evening celebrating the end of the semester. Your table is near the back, there is no exit behind you. Two masked men brandishing guns quickly burst into the restaurant. One has a pillowcase, the other stays at the door pointing the gun at everyone and keeping a watch out. They are both shouting. The other man goes to each table and points the gun at each person and shouts put your billfold, cell phones and all your jewerlry in the bag. All the restaurant staff quietly moves back into the kitchen and they all lock themselves in the refrigerator. The restaurant is still as the man comes to each table, billfolds purses cellphones and jewelry are placed in the bag as the gun is pointed at the head of each person at each table.

Your time is coming as he methodically moves through the restaurant yelling and screaming at each table. As the crime comes your way everyone prepares by getting their valuables out a head of time so the gun is pointed at your head for only a second then he is gone and it is another tables problem. You have a lot of cash with you so you fold it up and leave your billfold in your pocket, you place it in the bag and he says nothing. At least now you will not have the hassle of having to cancel all your credit cards and get a new drivers license. He moves past your table, your wife is sobbing as is the other women at the table. They now finish and move toward the door. They shout commands not to follow them or call the police and they back out the door and then they are gone.

Suddenly they both begin firing their guns through the front door from outside, hoping to catch anyone who decided to be brave and try to follow them to get a description of their get away car or maybe to kill a CCW holder who wasn't brave or foolish enough when they were inside to face them. The gun fire paralyzes everyone in the restaurant and then it is over, they have left.

The police arrive five or six minutes later. It takes hours to leave as statements must be taken from everyone. No one has been hurt, everyone has lost something of value, including their sense of well being. Eating out at a restaurant will never be the pleasure it once was. You will never go in that restaurant again.

My friend who told me of his robbery was unarmed, he does not own a gun and probably never will. It happened to him just like this. It never even made the news.