Church Carry -- Question from Renewal Class

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Pawpaw:

SOB - Is that a "Small of Back" carry style? :-)

No, that would be SOuthern Baptist. What did you think I meant?

Oh, I knew what you really meant.
I was just funnin' with you!! :-)

SIA

[dac1842]

My Preacher expects me to carry!

[camlott]

IANAL but as I understand it, the only alternative to a church posting would be if they gave written notice... like in the church bulletin.

I've never seen that, but it's a possibility.

Don't read the bulletin!!!



One of the main reasons for me getting a CHL was specifically to carry at church. That being said... The logistics of actually firing my weapon in an auditorium full of most likely panicked people scares me to death!!!!

[UpTheIrons]

One of the main reasons for me getting a CHL was specifically to carry at church. That being said... The logistics of actually firing my weapon in an auditorium full of most likely panicked people scares me to death!!!!

Believe me, as the guy up front in the white robe, I've had the same scary thoughts. I've analyzed again and again the how/what/when of responding to an armed intruder. Finding a place to engage an aggressor from (relative) safety is tough in our little church, and it would almost have to be done from the floor firing upwards. The only thing that keeps me from having nightmares is that there are a few other CHLers around who can take care of any problems that may arise.

[SecedeTX]

We had a mens prayer group night out at the range a little over a year ago. We found out that we have at least 12 men in the church with CHL's that were carrying (that we know of). The priest, who went shooting with us just laughed and said "Well, I feel much safer at church now"

Heck, my priest blessed my AR-15 in the parking lot before I went to shoot it the first time. I love Texas.

[computerfixerguy]

I just had a conversation with our pastor this last sunday, advised him of my chl status and wanted to know if he would have a problem with practicing chl holders in his church.. his answer was no.. not a all.. god bless and have a good day.

computerfixerguy

[Tamie]

find a new CHL instructor . . .

Relax and take a deep breath . . . I've had three different CHL instructors, and have found something I disagree with in the teachings of all three, either from interaction with the police or interpretation of plainly-written law.

So what.

Arguing with a "professional" instructor is like wrestling with a pig - all you get is dirty and the pig likes it . . . you won't convince him but if anything, it will make the class run longer than the already annoying statutory requirement. I'm there simply to "get my ticket punched" and unless the instructor is a total loser (none of mine actually fit that category!) paying attention to what he says will make passing the written test a breeze.

In the case cited by the original post, the instructor was simply wrong. Fine. You know the real situation: licensed carry is OK in church unless given notice pursuant to the law - end of story.

This guy sounds as bad as that youtube ninja guy.

[C-dub]

One of the reasons I carry at church and everywhere else I legally can and that my employer will allow is because I have no idea when someone will try and make me a victim.

[wrightcrew]

Again -- thanks for the responses. I corresponded with the instructor via email and asked for clarification. The response was as follows:

"I understand the confusion. This is why is stated that DPS wanted us to be sure as instructors to tell you that you are not to carry period into a church regardless if they have the signs posted or not. But then I also stated that the church and other attorneys interpret it as you did.

If they do not post the 30.06 sign then your not prohibited."

So, now I have two questions:

1. Do other instructors understand the same guidance from DPS -- "that DPS wanted us to be sure as instructors to tell you that you are not to carry period into a church regardless if they have the signs posted or not"?

2. If the answer to question #1 is yes, then why would DPS want instructors to tell students something that is clearly contrary to the written law?

[longtooth]

I am one of the new kids on the block. June this yr.
In our class the Instructor was very good on 30-06 & we left knowing that churches, nursing homes, & hospitals had to properly post to deny carry. I do not know about previous Instructors there that may have been biased. That has been talked about on the board in the past.

I guess there is a possibility that since I am a Pastor since 1974, carry 24-7, have trained SEVERAL in our church, Instructor now, that I could have heard what I wanted to hear. I dont think so though. They taught me right.

I was at a NH in another city yesterday & they had a sign I had never seen. Dont know if it was corporate generated, found on line somewhere, or what. Not 30-06 compliant so concealed is concealed & the sign does not apply to me. Tended business & returned home.

[Crossfire]

Again -- thanks for the responses. I corresponded with the instructor via email and asked for clarification. The response was as follows:

"I understand the confusion. This is why is stated that DPS wanted us to be sure as instructors to tell you that you are not to carry period into a church regardless if they have the signs posted or not. But then I also stated that the church and other attorneys interpret it as you did.

If they do not post the 30.06 sign then your not prohibited."

So, now I have two questions:

1. Do other instructors understand the same guidance from DPS -- "that DPS wanted us to be sure as instructors to tell you that you are not to carry period into a church regardless if they have the signs posted or not"?

2. If the answer to question #1 is yes, then why would DPS want instructors to tell students something that is clearly contrary to the written law?

Welcome to the wonderful world of DPS! And instructors (even DPS instructors) with their own agendas!

[longtooth]

Surely not.

[sjfcontrol]

I don't believe they told us that in the July 19th class (don't carry in church anyway). But there were other issues where their answers were less than helpful, and I believe, based on what they WISHED to be true.

[chasfm11]

I don't believe they told us that in the July 19th class (don't carry in church anyway). But there were other issues where their answers were less than helpful, and I believe, based on what they WISHED to be true.

As a very green newbie to the CHL world, this has been exactly my concern from the beginning. I fully understand that many (most) laws are written in a way that leaves them open to interpretation. I've always had trouble reconciling that with "ignorance of the law is no excuse." I don't consider myself to ignorant of the laws but think that understanding or correctly comprehending them is a whole different level.

Actually, the church carry issue is one of my lessor concerns. My opinion is that I would have to have a blatant reveal to have any problem at all. It is some of the sign/old sign areas (that have been beat to death in other threads)

I've dealt with DPS before on RV driver's license areas. I actually feel sorry for them. They are caught in a tough spot between the vagaries of the laws and the real, everyday experiences that all of us have. I suspect that many there, like many here, wish things were just a tad different in a few places.

[camlott]

"I understand the confusion. This is why is stated that DPS wanted us to be sure as instructors to tell you that you are not to carry period into a church regardless if they have the signs posted or not. But then I also stated that the church and other attorneys interpret it as you did.

If they do not post the 30.06 sign then your not prohibited."

I can assure you that our local police department is not interpreting this the way that DPS "wants" them to! - I asked

IADNAL... To me it doesn't really matter what they "want", it matters what is written in the law. I have no fear of carrying in church, and all of the officer's that attend with me know that I do and encourage it.