CHL holder killed by police in Las Vegas at a Costco

[aceat64]

Most security camera systems I've seen do not include any kind of backup or RAID (redundant hard drives). The reason is simple, cost. Sure hard drives are cheaper now than ever ($200 or less for 2TB), but security cameras aren't usually considered important enough to warrant redundancy or backups.

[E.Marquez]

Aren't most HDD for critical systems setup in a RAID configuration?

I doubt that the security cameras would be considered a "critical system". That's for systems who's failure would cause a loss of money, or business. Point-of-sale systems, servers for web-based businesses, backup systems, etc.

Loss prevention systems are considered a critical system in the two large corporate establishments I have an inside to. (wally world being one, the AFFES PX another)
There loss prevention surveillance systems are state of the art, and maintained as well as anything I have ever seen.
I’d bet a corporation like COSTCO is much the same.

[tacticool]

If there's a cover up, the criminals should do prison time.

[puma guy]

Erik's father came clean about the drugs Erik was taking before the Inquest.

http://erikbscottmemorialblog.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Erik had a back injury from the Army.

Did you know he was texting in the store. Seems they left that out since it would not fit with the "dazed" story they are presenting.

The wording of this article indicates that Erik's father has a high degree of confidence that unaltered video will surface at some point.

There's little else to suggest this is the case, and I don't think he's the kind of man to bluff. I think he's got an ace up his sleeve.

Stay tuned for what happens after the inquest.

I just read the latest blog entry. If he's right and Costco was streaming video offsite, AND it was going to a third party (my supposition), then there is a good chance the third party won't be interested in participating in a coverup. Lots of reading between the lines on my part, but that's what came to mind when I read the blog.

I have wondered why the 911 tape and video of Erik trashing merchandise and acting aggressively wasn't presented right off the bat if they would support the prosecution's allegations. Surely the hard drive for all the cameras in Costco weren't malfunctioning. I would think there are other cameras that would be recording him as he exited with all the other folks after the evacuation was announced. I know the 911 calls recording exists. m-m-m-m-m!

[esxmarkc]

I have wondered why the 911 tape and video of Erik trashing merchandise and acting aggressively wasn't presented right off the bat if they would support the prosecution's allegations. Surely the hard drive for all the cameras in Costco weren't malfunctioning. I would think there are other cameras that would be recording him as he exited with all the other folks after the evacuation was announced. I know the 911 calls recording exists.

The 911 tape is right here. http://www.8newsnow.com/story/13205712/ ... est-begins" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is in the panel on the right. If you expand it to full screen you can read the transcript. It is quite chilling. If you haven't seen this you should.

The caller talks about him putting his hand on his gun a couple of times as he is walking towards the door. And I don't believe the police outside the door were aware of or could hear this conversation.

You can actually hear the officers yelling at him "Put your hands where I can see them now!" "Drop it!!" "Get on the ground!! Get on the Ground!!" and then the shots fired. And it all goes down alot faster that I imagined. Sounds like it could be the same officer giving all the commands. And the caller says right away "He pulled a firearm!"

And to be honest from the sound of the audio it seems pretty incriminating to Scott. I can imagine anyone including myself making such a phone call if I confronted someone who was being disruptive and seemed to behave erratically. And if they had a gun and were told about the store's policy and they invoked the Constitution instead of leaving I wouldn't have much choice other than call the cops.

There is likely some serious overreaction in there somewhere by the cops but the audio and transcripts add a different view to Eric's dad's version of the story. And if this 911 tape turns out to be the only recorded evidence its going to be a long hard battle for Erik's family.

This is a sad one. Don't know what to think. Just going to have to let it all play out and hopefully the truth will rise to the top.

[puma guy]

I saw/heard the tape shortly after my last post. It paints an ominous portrait, but there are some things that disturb me. There are very incongruent commands given, "Show me your hands", "Drop it", "Get on the ground, Get on the ground". If he's armed why would the command be to "Get on the ground"?
I take the testimony of Shai Lierley as absolutely worthless and self serving. He was telling the dispatcher all sorts of things including that Erik was a shoplifter with no evidence at all. In Texas I believe accusing one of shoplifting is grounds for libel without proof positive. At least it was when I was in retail many years ago and dealt with security in our stores as a manager. When I heard/read the 911 transcript something that was bothering me but couldn't put my finger on came clear. This man had broken no laws. He was painted as a drug crazed lunatic by an individual who has absolutely no training in determining or diagnosing behavior disorders, drug use or addiction, portrayed him as a lawbreaking "box stuffer" and that individual is the star witness. To top it off in a really bright move they put Erik in among a crowd situation by evacuating the store. It also reminded me that as a CHL we can be victims of an overzealous person making a call to police and if things go wrong wind up dead. Just ask "handog" how things can get out of hand. Given the location is Las Vegas Mr. Shai Lierley effectively signed a death sentence for Erik Scott.

[KD5NRH]

And the caller says right away "He pulled a firearm!"

Does that sound squirrelly to anyone else? I'm a firearms enthusiast, and "firearm" is not the term I'd use when surprised in a high-stress situation. I can't imagine an average citizen pulling it off the top of their head rather than "gun."

As for putting his hand on the gun a "couple of times" while exiting, if I'm in the middle of a sudden evacuation for unknown reasons, I'll probably be double and triple checking all my safety gear, too.

[Beiruty]

It seems that prosecutor are painting this incident as a suicide by cop, or incoherent drugged and armed person who threatened the officers with deadly force. It is interesting to see what video evidence there is or was.

[puma guy]

It seems that prosecutor are painting this incident as a suicide by cop, or incoherent drugged and armed person who threatened the officers with deadly force. It is interesting to see what video evidence there is or was.

Unrecoverable from the hard drive according to testimony.

[Beiruty]

It seems that prosecutor are painting this incident as a suicide by cop, or incoherent drugged and armed person who threatened the officers with deadly force. It is interesting to see what video evidence there is or was.

Unrecoverable from the hard drive according to testimony.

Fishy, no? Costco is multi-billion dollars business. Can't they afford a working system? Aren't supposed to have a 100% working system 100% of the time?

What about the other witnesses?, the girlfriend?

[puma guy]

It seems that prosecutor are painting this incident as a suicide by cop, or incoherent drugged and armed person who threatened the officers with deadly force. It is interesting to see what video evidence there is or was.

Unrecoverable from the hard drive according to testimony.

Fishy, no? Costco is multi-billion dollars business. Can't they afford a working system? Aren't supposed to have a 100% working system 100% of the time?

What about the other witnesses?, the girlfriend?

It's not clear whether Erik's lawyer can call witnesses. The process is really one sided by design in favor of the prosecutor. I can't imagine the prosecutor calling the GF, or any witness that doesn't support justification of the shooting.

[esxmarkc]

Does that sound squirrelly to anyone else? I'm a firearms enthusiast, and "firearm" is not the term I'd use when surprised in a high-stress situation. I can't imagine an average citizen pulling it off the top of their head rather than "gun."

If you listen to and read the transcripts the guy was pretty consistent in using the term "firearm" throughout the conversation with dispatch.

Puma Guy has some points: of all the things this guy was describing to the dispatcher none of them were illegal. But keep in mind that I don't think that the police waiting outside heard any of this conversation. I only believe that they were all dispatched to the scene knowing that there was a patron in Costco acting erratically that had a gun on him. Someone else met the officers outside and gave them details of the situation and pointed Erik out as he emerged from the entrance. We haven't yet heard what that person told the police and how the evacuation was ordered/coordinated and exactly what was relayed from the dispatcher to the officers outside. But whatever the plan was it was orchestrated and went down pretty quick.

[puma guy]

Does that sound squirrelly to anyone else? I'm a firearms enthusiast, and "firearm" is not the term I'd use when surprised in a high-stress situation. I can't imagine an average citizen pulling it off the top of their head rather than "gun."

If you listen to and read the transcripts the guy was pretty consistent in using the term "firearm" throughout the conversation with dispatch.

Puma Guy has some points: of all the things this guy was describing to the dispatcher none of them were illegal. But keep in mind that I don't think that the police waiting outside heard any of this conversation. I only believe that they were all dispatched to the scene knowing that there was a patron in Costco acting erratically that had a gun on him. Someone else met the officers outside and gave them details of the situation and pointed Erik out as he emerged from the entrance. We haven't yet heard what that person told the police and how the evacuation was ordered/coordinated and exactly what was relayed from the dispatcher to the officers outside. But whatever the plan was it was orchestrated and went down pretty quick.

We don't know what information was told to the officers by the individual that pointed Erik out to police. The police officer that testified described Erik as he was portrayed by the caller plus some more. I would have to go back and listen but he used the term delusional. That would lead me to believe there was some transmission of the information to officers. Mr. Lierley was even putting spin on Erik's interaction with his GF. I hope there will be least one person allowed to testify who could shed some light from Erik's side. I can pretty much see the outcome here, though.

[esxmarkc]

Ok I know but I just can't help myself here...

For God's sake if some police officer shoots me don't let it be "Curly". http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/se ... gun-didnt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Next were going to find out that "Moe" and "Larry" had his back.

From this guy's testimony it sounds possible that Erik pulled his gun and holster all out of his waistband in order to hand it to the cops or at least comply with the "Drop it!" command as issued by the officer.

Quoted from the http://www.lasvegassun.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; article above (hope this meets the standards)

He explained how after homicide detectives responded to the scene and began investigating the officer-involved shooting, a number of items were recovered outside the store: Several shell casings, a cell phone, and a 9mm Kimber semiautomatic handgun.

The handgun was still in its holster.

Mosher testified that he didn’t know that the gun was in its holster at the time he fired. He said he owns the same type of holster, and the gun could be “easily fired” while in its holster.

He also testified that he didn’t recall ordering Scott to “drop his gun.” But those commands are distinctly heard on the 911 tape that was played for the jury.

The tape was again played for Mosher, who said it was his voice on the tape. He was the only officer issuing commands, he said.

My crystal ball is telling me that this is going to boil down to Mosher having only been briefed with the words "Erratic", "Drugs", "Green Beret" and "Gun" lost his cool when he commanded Erik to "Drop it!" probably as a mentally pre-recorded tatic and Erik actually trying to comply with that command and Mosher panicking when we saw Erik remove his gun (in the holster) with his left hand still above his head and fired. The other officers firing in panic or sympathetic mode. The shots all came pretty rapid on the tape.

Total shame. Now seems like Erik was not the victim of a premeditated malicious attack but instead the victim of a cascade of incompetence starting with the 911 call.

[baldeagle]

According to the timestamps on the transcript of the 911 call a total of no more than two seconds passed from the first order by police until Erik had been shot. The elapsed time from the caller reporting that Erik was at the entrance until he was shot was 15 seconds. The elapsed time from the officers seeing Erik and shooting him was no more than six seconds. The orders given were "Get on the ground" (twice), "Drop it" (once) and "Put your hands where I see them now" (once.)

According to the testimony, Officer Mosher was waiting for Erik at the door and grabbed Erik's right arm as he was walking by Officer Mosher. Officer Mosher denied that he ever touched Erik and said he couldn't explain why the testimony indicated that he had.