Another poll

[RPB]

Another poll 1 day ago -
http://www.helium.com/debates/66199-sho ... ide?page=7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Should colleges ban firearms?
Of COURSE colleges should ban firearms.

There is absolutely no reason that students on a college campus should carry firearms of any kind. A college is a place of learning, not violence

Results so far:
Yes
79% 810 votes Total: 1028 votes
No
21% 218 votes
------------
You voted
on 12/24/10

[C-dub]

I just voted. It is amazing how ridiculous some of the anti arguments are. The evidence they provide in favor of banning them are precisely the reasons they should be allowed. They seem to be going in the direction of allowing them and them flip at the last moment and vote to ban them.

And some of the arguments for allowing them aren't any better. A few of them appear to be going towards banning guns and then flip to say they should be allowed.

[OldCurlyWolf]

I have not set foot on school property in years. I couldn't care less about the issue.

It may or may not affect you or me or many others directly, however it may well affect our children or grandchildren. Ignoring the problem is the same as contributing to the problem.

"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

[RPB]

I heard someone say once:
"Abortions don't affect me; I've already been born."
I understand and respect their right to hold that, or any other position.

However, guns falling into the wrong hands because they must be stored in cars on campus MIGHT affect you some day if you run into one ...
especially since criminals are aware that campus parking lots are more likely to have a better crop due to that fact, than WalMart parking lots where CHLs aren't forced to leave their crop of guns out in unattended fields for "easy pickings"

I'll say no more, I was just posting a spot where, if one so desires, they may vote..

[Pyrat]

I think the real issue is this being just another attempt to program students with the predominant view of these institutions, i.e. guns are bad and therefore must be banned.

[steve817]

I am already having to undo the damage that school has done to my kid in a few short years.

[idrathernot]

Most of the article authors seem to be Canadian. Here I was thinking that your average American was a little slow.....

Colleges don't want to allow students the right to defend themselves on campus because of the same reasons why large corporations don't want their employees armed. Hell, it's the same reason why two men have been fired in the Austin area for tackling shoplifters leaving their grocery stores. L-I--A-B-I-L-I-T-Y. The way that our legal system has been abused in this regard is such a tragedy, but it you look at the issue from a purely defensive legal stance it's all pretty congruous.

When was the last time someone successfully claimed damages for being deprived of the ability to defend themselves on governmental/private property? (Not being sarcastic, I'd actually really like to know)

Now count the thousands of settlements and cases filed by individuals against the same entities in the last couple of years. What would you perceive as the greater threat?

[RPB]

Most of the article authors seem to be Canadian. Here I was thinking that your average American was a little slow.....

Colleges don't want to allow students the right to defend themselves on campus because of the same reasons why large corporations don't want the same from their employees. L-I--A-B-I-L-I-T-Y. The way that our legal system has been abused in this regard is such a tragedy, but it you look at the issue from a purely defensive legal stance it's all pretty congruous.

I suppose they "could" get sued, but did Virginia Tech?

What Liability do they assume for cars broken into?
"guns falling into the wrong hands because they must be stored in cars on campus"
None? ....

I think they may enjoy a bit of "sovereign immunity" possibly, though I never looked into it.

They should have no more "liability" than the Capitol building does.

[idrathernot]

Apparently VT was sued by members of the victims family. There was a civil suit against the University President which I believe was dismissed based off of Sovereign Immunity, could't find much about it. However, the University did pay $11 million to the families of the victims via a settlement to "avoid a court battle over whether anyone besides the gunman was to blame".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24050712/ns ... nd_courts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[juggernaut]

They don't like guns, but they're too cowardly to stand up for their beliefs, so they blame someone else.

"Sorry. I'd love to let you in, but you have dark skin, and my insurance company requires me to prohibit dark skinned people for liability reasons, based on crime statistics."

[RPB]

Well, that was nice of them to pay a little to the families of the people they forbade the right to protect themselves, even though they owed no legal obligation to do so if case dismissed due to sovereign immunity.

I believe the "liability" excuse is an excuse, a facade.

Seriously, how much do they pay for other crimes on campus? stolen laptops, rapes, burglaries, robberies?
Nothing?

[idrathernot]

That's the thing about our litigious society. You may not be actually liable, but fighting the suit may end up costing more than just paying the settlement. That's what the "policy makers" are thinking of. Until it becomes more fiscally burdensome to deny a person the right to self defense, I don't see this thought process changing.

I'm absolutely pro-campus carry. I am a student and there was an incident just this fall where a gunman was running down the street. Thank goodness I did not have class that day or classes on that side of campus but I could very easily have been at the mercy of a suicidal teen. Knowing this, I don't much care what the laws are at this point. My life is worth a lot more to me than a misdemeanor. "Concealed is Concealed" right?

[RPB]

yeah

Over at A&M some guy said "Thank goodness no CHL's were there when the guy had the fake gun"

I pointed out most CHLs would know
1) nothing illegal about carrying a rifle around on campus
2) A&M has a shooting club
3) CHLs, (and most people) know A&M has a corps of cadets
I wanted to say ... "I understand why YOU are so scared, people are afraid of unknowns, and you show your ignorance well ...but to me, it would be as exciting as watching him carry a tuba or saxophone ... they have a band too right?"

"So what are you afraid I'd do?
Draw? intentional failure to conceal is a crime for which would cost much in legal fees.
Waive it around? Disorderly conduct is a crime for which I could lose a license and pay much in legal fees.

I'd no more draw on someone carrying a rifle who wasn't a threat than someone carrying a tuba.


Had to chuckle at Bat Masterson this morning ... riding horse with another guy, hears a rifle shot
"What are you going to do Bat?
Bat: "Nothing, he wasn't aiming at US."
(possibly a hunter)

No threat ... no problem.

[idrathernot]

I used to be on the Drill team at UT and I carried a very realistic looking fake rifle in civvies all around the Main building (Tower) and nobody even looked twice. (I also never saw a UTPD officer en route to formation either). Even had I been there when the kid with the "AK-47" (there's no way it was an actual, fully automatic AK despite the fact that no-one is reporting it thusly.) was randomly popping off shots, I wouldn't have drawn unless I got between him and the direction he was going.

Meanwhile, my best friend who is also a CHL, is sitting next door in the McCombs building looking out the windows trying to figure out how to clamber down the roof like Batman should the shooter enter. No way was he sitting there in a classroom under a desk waiting for rescue.

[RPB]

lack of ROTC programs in high schools causes alarm when people see rifles; they are no longer "conditioned" that guns aren't bad.