[Pre-paid legal service]

[Pawpaw]

I signed up today while at the Ft. Worth gun show. I had already just about decided to sign up & decided to ask a couple of questions when I saw their booth. They are running a promotion at the show where you get two extra months of coverage if you sign up for a year... 14 months of coverage for the price of 12.

As a side note, I met someone from the forum. He wasn't sure about his forum name, so hopefully he'll chime in here. It was nice to meet you, whoever you are!

[4copas]

Hi Charles and forum Members,

I stated that [pre-paid legal] is on "retainer" becasue, 1. All of the attorneys that have spoken in our class have repeated that they are not pre-paid legal and are in fact on retainer. 2. The first sentence on my contract reads, Client hereby employs and retains the Firm for representaion and the Firm hereby accepts this employement, for the limited purpose set out in the contract.

Below is an excerpt of coverage from a [pre-paid legal] contract. The term "Micro Retainer" is used but I am not sure what that means legally.

A. What is Covered, ALL charges for fees for attorney time in connection with the Firm's representaion of Client in any criminal procedure in the Sate of Texas arising from the client's use of his or her handgun.

B What is NOT covered, Any expenses associated with investigators, expert wtnesses, witnesses, or other persons necessary to assist in the defense of the case, bail bonds, or other court fees, in any.

I am not so much a supporter of [pre-paid legal] as I am in educating the public and myself on what happens after a shooting. Two years ago I probably would have told the police what I think happened if I was involved in a self-defense shooting and being the Good Guy everything would be ok. Now I think would call 911, get the police and an ambulance, hang up the phone and call my attorney, just like a LEO will do if they are involved in a shoooting. (I am not suggesting that CHLer's are LEO's).

Thanks for listening to me,

Brian Mobley

http://www.besafechl.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Clients use of his or her handgun" Does this mean if the client used any other firearm such as a shotgun or rifle there would be no coverage?

[bobcat50]

Texas Concealed Handgun Association has a CHL "Protection Plan". I have only heard very good things about it even from my CHL instructor. I singed up for it. Check it out at their website. Very reasonable for 4 years of access to attorneys.

[chuckybrown]

Bobcat, I clicked on your link, thinking, "Ok, I'll check this out". Then found the link to the actual website of the company. All looked good until I scrolled down to the "Breaking News" flash in the bottom right corner. Ugh. http://www.chlpp.com/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Really? A badge?

It just made me laugh out loud......

[Charles L. Cotton]

Bobcat, I clicked on your link, thinking, "Ok, I'll check this out". Then found the link to the actual website of the company. All looked good until I scrolled down to the "Breaking News" flash in the bottom right corner. Ugh. http://www.chlpp.com/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Really? A badge?

It just made me laugh out loud......

CHL Badges? This just keeps getting better.

Chas.

[Crossfire]

I signed up today while at the Ft. Worth gun show. I had already just about decided to sign up & decided to ask a couple of questions when I saw their booth. They are running a promotion at the show where you get two extra months of coverage if you sign up for a year... 14 months of coverage for the price of 12.

As a side note, I met someone from the forum. He wasn't sure about his forum name, so hopefully he'll chime in here. It was nice to meet you, whoever you are!

I was at the Ft Worth Gun Show yesterday, too. I met Diesel42 there. Maybe that was who you met too.

[Crossfire]

Texas Concealed Handgun Association has a CHL "Protection Plan". I have only heard very good things about it even from my CHL instructor. I singed up for it. Check it out at their website. Very reasonable for 4 years of access to attorneys.

You should understand that your CHL instructor gets a commission for everyone he signs up for any of these "prepaid legal" plans.

Just saying.... take it all with a grain of salt.

[Pawpaw]

I signed up today while at the Ft. Worth gun show. I had already just about decided to sign up & decided to ask a couple of questions when I saw their booth. They are running a promotion at the show where you get two extra months of coverage if you sign up for a year... 14 months of coverage for the price of 12.

As a side note, I met someone from the forum. He wasn't sure about his forum name, so hopefully he'll chime in here. It was nice to meet you, whoever you are!

I was at the Ft Worth Gun Show yesterday, too. I met Diesel42 there. Maybe that was who you met too.

I don't think so. He told me a couple of possible names and (of course) my old timer's disease keeps me from remembering them. That just doesn't sound right.

He was a 50-ish guy and he mentioned taking long motorcycle trips.

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

[AustinBoy]

I signed up with the insurance company that I have my homeowners policy through.
It is a $2 million "umbrella policy" that covers 100% of legal expenses and judgements if I am sued for ANY reason.
I specifically asked if it would cover a self defense shooting and was assured it would.
It covers anyone in my household.

Very cheap as well.

Is this a good alternative?

Thanks
Ty

[sjfcontrol]

I was once told by an agent that homeowner's ins would not cover "intentional" acts -- and a self defense shooting is certainly intentional. Also, although it may cover you from civil suits, what happens if you're charged criminally? Unlikely your umbrella policy would cover your defense.

[duckhead]

I signed up with the insurance company that I have my homeowners policy through.
It is a $2 million "umbrella policy" that covers 100% of legal expenses and judgements if I am sued for ANY reason.
I specifically asked if it would cover a self defense shooting and was assured it would.
It covers anyone in my household.

Civil liability maybe but what about the cost of criminal defense?

[glock75]

I have been reading about this group that offers experts and attorney for self defense shootings for a yearly fee. Marty Hayes is the main guy and Massad Ayoob is one of the experts.

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[b322da]

I signed up with the insurance company that I have my homeowners policy through.
It is a $2 million "umbrella policy" that covers 100% of legal expenses and judgements if I am sued for ANY reason.
I specifically asked if it would cover a self defense shooting and was assured it would.
It covers anyone in my household.

Very cheap as well.

Is this a good alternative?

Thanks
Ty

Ty,

This troubles me a bit, but of course without seeing the fine print I certainly cannot seriously question it.

I would, however, suggest that you, and any others who think that an umbrella on one's homeowner's policy covers intentional acts, if you are sued for ANY reason, take a simple step. I, of course, do not know who "assured" you of this, but most often such assurances come from a salesman/broker, as contrasted with the "home office."

The simple step I propose would be to get this "assurance" in writing -- clear and unambiguous writing. That clear and unambiguous writing should be in the fine print of your homeowner's policy, but let me assure you on the basis of much personal experience, the fine print in insurance policies is seldom clear and unambiguous, and it is even less likely to have been read by the insured. I would seriously suspect that it is doubtful, in the extreme, that more than 10% of individuals read every single word of their homeowner's policy with understanding, even if they are provided with a complete copy, which is not always the case.

If one does not find it there in one's policy, then one should get it in writing from the person who gave that assurance, and then consider this individual's ability to respond personally to costs you might incur should you have been misled -- up to, in your case, $2 mil. plus your basic coverage which has the umbrella over it.

If you cannot get this assurance of coverage for intentional acts from whomever made this assurance to you, you will have learned something.

Again, Ty, I question neither you, nor the assurance you have been given, nor the credibility of the person giving you the assurance. But the rarity of such coverage, particularly when "very cheap," gives me great misgivings.

And a simple letter to whomever gave you this assurance will cost you no more than a few minutes of your time and 44 cents. Not getting that assurance in writing could cost you a lot more if you pull that trigger. Should you get this assurance in writing put it away in a safe place. Also, if you do get it, I would sure appreciate a PM identifying the insurance company. I might buy some coverage.

Respectfully,

Elmo

[philbo]

... It has also been reported that one of these programs has a clause that allows them to cancel the agreement at any time. Is that [pre-paid legal]?

Chas.

Yes, Article VI(1) of their contract (rev 10/10.1) states as follows:

This contract may be terminated for any of the following events:
1) This CHL micro-retainer program is terminated by the Firm for whatever reason;
2) The Client ceases to be a client of the Firm;
3) A conflict of interest has arisen and the Client has been notified by the Firm;
4) Client no longer wishes the Firm to act as Client’s attorney; or
5) Client ceases to hold a valid Concealed Handgun Licence issued by the state of Texas or a concealed handgun license issued under a lawful authority recognized by the State of Texas

The same paragraph also limits your recovery of fees to the following:

If the Firm terminates its representation of Client under this contract for any reason, Client hereby agrees to accept the return of the pro-rated, unearned
portion of the Micro Retainer fee.

This is a change from their earlier contract where you were only entitled to 3 months of the micro retainer fee or the amount you had actually paid, whichever was less. This change was an improvement in my opinion. But, the retainer is earned the first day of each month by definition.

VII. MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS
The parties to this agreement hereby agree that all monthly Micro Retainer amounts are deemed earned by the Firm on the first day of each calendar month.

I want more in a retainer agreement with my attorney than an at-will contract. Just my 2 cents.

[G26ster]

To me, and IANAL, that clause says that the contract can be terminated by the firm if the PROGRAM is terminated. I don't take that to read that an INDIVIDUAL contract can be can terminated for whatever reason. Just MHO.