Required Presentation of CHL when NOT Carrying?

[RicosRevenge]

Actually hirundo82, in doing some more reading here with relation to Grapevine; I'm almost coming to the conclusion the the GVPD may actually be intentionally harrassing CHL holders in an intent to confuse us into NOT carrying "just in case." Unfortunately for them, I'm not "that" guy that will take the word of someone with a badge JUST because they have a badge.

You want to have even more fun in GV? Make an appointment with the CoP and ask him to sign off on a Form 4 for a Suppressor! Thank God trusts are easy to form.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

~ Rico

[hirundo82]

I'm almost coming to the conclusion the the GVPD may actually be intentionally harrassing CHL holders in an intent to confuse us into NOT carrying "just in case."

I was applying Hanlon's Razor in this case, but you may be correct.

[PUCKER]

Actually hirundo82, in doing some more reading here with relation to Grapevine; I'm almost coming to the conclusion the the GVPD may actually be intentionally harrassing CHL holders in an intent to confuse us into NOT carrying "just in case." Unfortunately for them, I'm not "that" guy that will take the word of someone with a badge JUST because they have a badge.

You want to have even more fun in GV? Make an appointment with the CoP and ask him to sign off on a Form 4 for a Suppressor! Thank God trusts are easy to form.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

~ Rico

Rico - I had the GVPD Chief (back in '96 or thereabouts) sign off on my Form 4 with *zero* problems. Not sure how the conversation would go today. Granted, the seller (Nick at Western Firearms Co.) of the ATF item was (and still is from what I know) located in Grapevine, helped to set up the appointment, knew the Chief, etc.

[RoyGBiv]

I was applying Hanlon's Razor in this case, but you may be correct.

Thanks for my new Sig line...

[GAM]

As this was explained in my January CHL class, the penalty was dropped since "carry in vehicle" no longer required "traveling" [however that was (ill) defined] and as non-CHL holders were not required to present their non-existent licenses when possessing a concealed weapon while in-vehicle, there was a logical fallacy in penalizing a CHL holder for not presenting when not carrying in-vehicle. As others commented, it was stressed as not being a bad idea to present when stopped anyway.
GAM

By law:
1) You should present both your DL and your CHL, carrying or otherwise when requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

Great, please show me where that law is so I know.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license
holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's
person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license
holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license
holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the
department and the license holder's handgun license.

I see no requirement to display your CHL if you're not carrying.

[rm9792]

Have you considered writing an email or letter to his supervisor and the chief or even visiting in person to have him reeducated? If we keep letting this go on it will not stop on its own.

[C-dub]

RicosRevenge, sorry you had to register to get your answer. Just kidding, welcome to the forum!

[jamisjockey]

By law:
1) You should present both your DL and your CHL, carrying or otherwise when requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

Great, please show me where that law is so I know.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license
holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's
person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license
holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license
holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the
department and the license holder's handgun license.

I see no requirement to display your CHL if you're not carrying.

The statute specifically says "is carrying".
And there is no penalty for not doing so.
Me, I'd call the department and tell them that they have cops running around threatening to felony arrest people for a non-event. I'd consider calling the AG, too. What if he was having a bad day and pulled you over in this exact situation? What if you fail the "attitude test"? This cop is going to hook someone up for a non event sooner or later.

[hirundo82]

I was applying Hanlon's Razor in this case, but you may be correct.

Thanks for my new Sig line...

Glad to be of service.

[Abraham]

My wife was stopped by a female HPD officer for a minor traffic infraction.

She presented the officer her license and CHL, though she wasn't carrying and said so.

The officer responded that my wife was very lucky she'd thought to also present the officer her CHL or SHE WOULD'VE BEEN IN BIG TROUBLE- even though she wasn't carrying...

Such ignorance of CHL laws by LEO's is to be found all over the state.

P.S. On the plus side, the officer didn't ticket her and strenuously worked at convincing my wife to always carry as there are a lot of bad people out there.

[C-dub]

That's an interesting combination. Ignorant of the law and encouraging someone to carry a gun!

[TxKimberMan]

That's an interesting combination. Ignorant of the law and encouraging someone to carry a gun!

[puma guy]

By law:
1) You should present both your DL and your CHL, carrying or otherwise when requested by LEO.
2) The law has been amended as there is no more penalty for failure to do 1).
3) You still have to do 1).

Great, please show me where that law is so I know.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license
holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's
person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license
holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license
holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the
department and the license holder's handgun license.

I see no requirement to display your CHL if you're not carrying.

The statute specifically says "is carrying".
And there is no penalty for not doing so.
Me, I'd call the department and tell them that they have cops running around threatening to felony arrest people for a non-event. I'd consider calling the AG, too. What if he was having a bad day and pulled you over in this exact situation? What if you fail the "attitude test"? This cop is going to hook someone up for a non event sooner or later.

Sorry if flagellating the proverbial equine beast, here. But........A deffinitive answer would be greatly appreciated if there is someone who will go that far. I rarely drink, but if I anticipate that I might imbibe I leave my CCW and CHL at home since, I interpreted the law to present CHL only when carrying. ????? Ofcourse I could just make sure I always carry my CHL regardless, but it's nice to know and understand the law.

[steveincowtown]

There is no use in going to the Chief, as ignorance of the law does not travel for the rank and file to the top, but vice versa. I think a kindly worded letter to the City Attorney, asking him if he could clarify the latest updates and changes to the CHL statues with the Chief of Police, to include….

Also, IMHO and all the jazz, for every LEO that doesn’t know the law, there are 100 that know that when you present the CHL that odds are you are a pretty good citizen; and treat you a little better because of it.

[hirundo82]

Sorry if flagellating the proverbial equine beast, here. But........A deffinitive answer would be greatly appreciated if there is someone who will go that far. I rarely drink, but if I anticipate that I might imbibe I leave my CCW and CHL at home since, I interpreted the law to present CHL only when carrying. ????? Ofcourse I could just make sure I always carry my CHL regardless, but it's nice to know and understand the law.

I'm not sure what definitive answer you are asking for. There is absolutely no question that you are only required to present your CHL if asked to identify yourself and you are carrying on the authority of your CHL at the time.

No handgun or about your person-->not carrying under the authority of your CHL-->no requirement to present CHL if asked to identify yourself (and no requirement to present ID if not driving).