open carry

[Oldgringo]

I guess I wonder how many will OC if it does become lawful. I spent a week in Tucson, and didn't see a single person oc-ing. I was among the public, restaurants all week and didn't notice a thing. Prior to that, I was in Mesa for a week, and other than a bunch of us shooting up in the Mts, I didn't see any.

There's a reason that you didn't see any OC. Even where legal, it just ain't done on a large enough scale to be openly and publicly visible...in the lower 48.

Legalized OC would be nice to have but it's not necessary and it dang sure isn't needed at the expense of our current CC laws and Texas' unique 30.06 sign.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Well, seeings how I sit in a very friendly OC state, I have no obligation to Texans or their rights. As a friend of mine put it (on a site that is hated by moderators here (OCDO)) The best way to protect rights is to protect the rights of others. I never siad the politician had to be OC friendly, just 2nd amendment friendly. Legal battles are being fought all over the country right now that are in favor of gun owners. Now is the time to press on our legislators and let them know that what they have been doing is great but it is not enough. We can't afford to wait until Obama and his czars mess with the system. OC time and time again has proven to be a deter to criminal activity. Look at statistics on how percentage wise how many how many CCers have to pull and fire on a criminal compared to OCers. It's just sad today that people go around preaching that they are pro-2nd amendment but then in the same sentence say that OC is wrong. That I find very amusing and heretical.

I can certainly tell you ascribe to the OpenCarry.org philosophy of denigrating pro-gun people who don't accept open-carry without reservation or concern for possible backlash. It's not just the Moderators that don't like the scorched earth approach of OpenCarry.org; a large part of our Membership feels the same way.

If you want to stay here, don't insult people again.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

If someone thinks the Brady Bill and AWB are "incremental" then so is allowing unlicensed open carry.

It's too late in the session, and I don't like the current OC bill, so I wouldn't push for it this year, but the baby steps attitude causes us to lose ground over time. The antis are not afraid to take big steps. Why are we so afraid, when we have the moral high ground?

I am not afraid to take big steps, but I am tactically aware enough to know what will work and what will really irritate the vast majority, who are neutral on this issue. We need the neutrals to support us and see us as reasonable people. If they see us as reasonable, they may not support us, but they will not oppose us. This is critical to getting what we want. But, when the neutrals see us as unreasonable, they will not support us and will actively fight against us.

Very well said Steve. I think far too few people understand that while the majority of people are not anti-gun, they are neutral on the issue. They are the battleground politically speaking. We won't convert the Sarah Brady ilk, she won't convert NRA folks, so we both battle for those in the middle -- the neutrals as Steve said.

Chas.

[74novaman]

Very well said Steve. I think far too few people understand that while the majority of people are not anti-gun, they are neutral on the issue. They are the battleground politically speaking. We won't convert the Sarah Brady ilk, she won't convert NRA folks, so we both battle for those in the middle -- the neutrals as Steve said.

Chas.

. And to tie into an earlier post by Charles, I'm sure that the scorched earth tactics of calling anyone who doesn't understand or like open carry (like those people in the middle we want to win over) as anti gun, anti constitutional idiots is really going to win them to our side.

Add a little +1 as to Charles comment about membership here not liking OCDO tactics....he would be referring to me, at least. I've surfed the ocdo site, and their own posts have done very little to dissuade me that any of them are willing to work on small steps to get to where we should be.

That's a shame, because I think our eventual goals (constitutional carry) are one and the same.

Some of us just think you can't eat an elephant in one big meal. Those you think you could, go try the 72 ounce steak challenge at the big Texan and report back to me.

[The Annoyed Man]

Well, seeings how I sit in a very friendly OC state, I have no obligation to Texans or their rights. As a friend of mine put it (on a site that is hated by moderators here (OCDO)) The best way to protect rights is to protect the rights of others. I never siad the politician had to be OC friendly, just 2nd amendment friendly. Legal battles are being fought all over the country right now that are in favor of gun owners. Now is the time to press on our legislators and let them know that what they have been doing is great but it is not enough. We can't afford to wait until Obama and his czars mess with the system. OC time and time again has proven to be a deter to criminal activity. Look at statistics on how percentage wise how many how many CCers have to pull and fire on a criminal compared to OCers. It's just sad today that people go around preaching that they are pro-2nd amendment but then in the same sentence say that OC is wrong. That I find very amusing and heretical.

OK, so you admit you're from out of state, and you want to tell Texans, to whom you owe no obligations, how we should be managing our in-state strategies to achieve open carry. I believe the term "carpetbagging" applies. And in keeping with your friend from bombthrowers.org, you think that the best way to protect your rights in [name your state], is to tell Texans how to protect their rights in Texas. And by the way, you said that you would not vote for any politician who was not "100%" (your words, not mine) for the 2nd Amendment, and then proceded to say that the only way to fully express the 2nd is through open carry. You even said that even 1% "against"/99% "for" was enough for them to lose your vote. That means that, in your eyes, any politician who won't support open carry, no matter how good he is on every other aspect of the 2nd, is not "100%" and that you think we should not vote for him.

One of the vanities of arrogance is the assumption that others should be grateful for one's interference in their affairs to set them straight. Since we don't know in what state you reside, we have no way of knowing if your state's history with regard to the RKBA closely parallels that of Texas or not. If it doesn't parallel ours, then your state's arrival at OC is irrelevant to our own journey, and you're not in a position to advise Texans. How about being bold enough to tell us your state?

[Barbi Q]

'OC is a pretty volatile subject on the Texas Concealed Handgun Forum'.

I'm waiting for you to make similar comments about all the RIFLE and SHOTGUN comments on the Texas Concealed HANDGUN forum.

[Keith B]

Well, seeings how I sit in a very friendly OC state, I have no obligation to Texans or their rights. As a friend of mine put it (on a site that is hated by moderators here (OCDO)) The best way to protect rights is to protect the rights of others. I never siad the politician had to be OC friendly, just 2nd amendment friendly. Legal battles are being fought all over the country right now that are in favor of gun owners. Now is the time to press on our legislators and let them know that what they have been doing is great but it is not enough. We can't afford to wait until Obama and his czars mess with the system. OC time and time again has proven to be a deter to criminal activity. Look at statistics on how percentage wise how many how many CCers have to pull and fire on a criminal compared to OCers. It's just sad today that people go around preaching that they are pro-2nd amendment but then in the same sentence say that OC is wrong. That I find very amusing and heretical.

Well, I will tell you that you are NOT in a VERY friendly open carry state. If Indiana WERE a friendly state, then the law would specify that it was legal to openly carry. The real fact is that the law is silent on how you must carry with the license (concealed or open), and that is the only thing that makes open carry permissible. AND, you must have a LTCH (License To Carry a Handgun), so again if they were VERY friendly they would not require you have a license.

While it may not be an issue out in the rural areas where I believe you live, but there are many LEO's in Indiana that think that the license is implied for concealed carry, and they have and can harass you about it, even though it's legal (just search the open carry forums.) And, the state allows government buildings to restrict carry in them at their discretion. Texas law excludes government buildings from prohibiting you from carrying, so unless there is a court there or 30.06 (see below) posted meeting of government officials, then you can carry. Even our capitol building allows concealed carry.

In Texas, we also have a very large sign that must include the wording from Penal Code section 30.06 in English and Spanish to prohibit concealed carry if not an already prohibited place. In Indiana, you just need a little 'gun busters' sign and that is legal.

Additionally, Indiana is a MAY issue state, unlike Texas which is a SHALL issue state. If the local LEO in your Indiana town who is in charge of approving your request for a permit just doesn't think you should have one, then they can send a disapproval notice to the superintendent and then you have to challenge the decision. In Texas you just have to meet the qualifications and you will get your permit.

So, you can come in here trolling with your open carry rhetoric, but sounds to me like Texas, even with its restrictions are better than your supposed friendly state. I suggest you go talk to YOUR state legislators and see if you can get some of the restrictions removed in YOUR state before you talk trash about ours.

[wgoforth]

I guess I wonder how many will OC if it does become lawful. I spent a week in Tucson, and didn't see a single person oc-ing. I was among the public, restaurants all week and didn't notice a thing. Prior to that, I was in Mesa for a week, and other than a bunch of us shooting up in the Mts, I didn't see any.

There's a reason that you didn't see any OC. Even where legal, it just ain't done on a large enough scale to be openly and publicly visible...in the lower 48.

Legalized OC would be nice to have but it's not necessary and it dang sure isn't needed at the expense of our current CC laws and Texas' unique 30.06 sign.

Right, and that's really where I was heading. Even where legal it isn't widely practiced...so why risk our current CHL laws over something that will be so seldomly practiced.

[Beiruty]

So let us say that both campus cc and parking lot bill both passed this session. 2 yrs from now will it be OC that is pushed or some other top secret bil(s) will be pushed?

[03Lightningrocks]

Well, seeings how I sit in a very friendly OC state, I have no obligation to Texans or their rights. As a friend of mine put it (on a site that is hated by moderators here (OCDO)) The best way to protect rights is to protect the rights of others. I never siad the politician had to be OC friendly, just 2nd amendment friendly. Legal battles are being fought all over the country right now that are in favor of gun owners. Now is the time to press on our legislators and let them know that what they have been doing is great but it is not enough. We can't afford to wait until Obama and his czars mess with the system. OC time and time again has proven to be a deter to criminal activity. Look at statistics on how percentage wise how many how many CCers have to pull and fire on a criminal compared to OCers. It's just sad today that people go around preaching that they are pro-2nd amendment but then in the same sentence say that OC is wrong. That I find very amusing and heretical.

Well, I will tell you that you are NOT in a VERY friendly open carry state. If Indiana WERE a friendly state, then the law would specify that it was legal to openly carry. The real fact is that the law is silent on how you must carry with the license (concealed or open), and that is the only thing that makes open carry permissible. AND, you must have a LTCH (License To Carry a Handgun), so again if they were VERY friendly they would not require you have a license.

While it may not be an issue out in the rural areas where I believe you live, but there are many LEO's in Indiana that think that the license is implied for concealed carry, and they have and can harass you about it, even though it's legal (just search the open carry forums.) And, the state allows government buildings to restrict carry in them at their discretion. Texas law excludes government buildings from prohibiting you from carrying, so unless there is a court there or 30.06 (see below) posted meeting of government officials, then you can carry. Even our capitol building allows concealed carry.

In Texas, we also have a very large sign that must include the wording from Penal Code section 30.06 in English and Spanish to prohibit concealed carry if not an already prohibited place. In Indiana, you just need a little 'gun busters' sign and that is legal.

Additionally, Indiana is a MAY issue state, unlike Texas which is a SHALL issue state. If the local LEO in your Indiana town who is in charge of approving your request for a permit just doesn't think you should have one, then they can send a disapproval notice to the superintendent and then you have to challenge the decision. In Texas you just have to meet the qualifications and you will get your permit.

So, you can come in here trolling with your open carry rhetoric, but sounds to me like Texas, even with its restrictions are better than your supposed friendly state. I suggest you go talk to YOUR state legislators and see if you can get some of the restrictions removed in YOUR state before you talk trash about ours.

and there you have it. Credibilty officially smashed! It only took three posts after joining. That was quick.

[canvasbck]

So let us say that both campus cc and parking lot bill both passed this session. 2 yrs from now will it be OC that is pushed or some other top secret bil(s) will be pushed?

This is a good question. IF we are successful with campus carry and the parking lot bill, what will 2013 have on the agenda?

I personally would like to see OC on the table along with eliminating some of the "gun free" zones such as sporting events, ect.

[Oldgringo]

'OC is a pretty volatile subject on the Texas Concealed Handgun Forum'.

I'm waiting for you to make similar comments about all the RIFLE and SHOTGUN comments on the Texas Concealed HANDGUN forum.

Barbi Q,

If you'd taken the time to read the entire thread instead of firing up your flamethrower, you would have seen that Moderator Longtooth should be credited with that original statement.

Furthermore, my .22 rifles are my current shooting interest - short of self preservation shooting. I used to shoot mucho Trap and Skeet (shotguns) back in the day when I could afford it and shot cost $8.00/25lbs. Alas, I was not born of wealthy parents nor did I marry into wealth and had to curb those pursuits when I quit working.

Moo?

[jsimmons]

A former (banned) Member of TexasCHLforum claims to have written it and I suspect this is true.

Why did you feel the need to add the "(banned)" modifer. I want open-carry. Are you going to ban me, too?

[Oldgringo]

A former (banned) Member of TexasCHLforum claims to have written it and I suspect this is true.

Why did you feel the need to add the "(banned)" modifer. I want open-carry. Are you going to ban me, too?

Uh Oh!

[carlson1]

I am probably the only Moderator that wants open carry. I make no bones about it and don't attempt to hide it.
I don't think Mr. Cotton ban those he does not agree with. Maybe check the attitude you have while disagreeing.