open carry

[Keith B]

I am probably the only Moderator that wants open carry. I make no bones about it and don't attempt to hide it.
I don't think Mr. Cotton ban those he does not agree with. Maybe check the attitude you have while disagreeing.

I would like Open Carry too, but do not want it at the cost of getting more concealed carry restrictions imposed or the possibility of more places banning carry period. That is the problem that I see with the way the current bill is worded and the public awareness it will bring.

And, as Carl said, when you check your gun at the door, you also need to check your attitude as that is what gets people banned, not disagreeing with a stance in a business like manner.

[steveincowtown]

If we (the CHL community) don’t start addressing this issue they (the OC at any cost crowd) will present a bill eventually that may get them what, and clearly has the potential to be at the cost of CHL’ers. It seems like if we really wanted to preserve CHL rights we could beat them to the punch by presenting a bill which allows for OC, but does not do any harm to CHL’ers. In my mind it is more a matter of self preservation than agreement.

[denwego]

With all the talk about §30.06 being changed, let's look at the positive side - every single current 30.06 sign, every last one of them, would be instantly invalid overnight over the entire state, thanks to those few minor wording changes. How many places are going to immediately go to the new code and update their signs to keep them compliant? If you don't want to carry openly past those "old" signs, stay concealed and relish the fact that you reap a nifty little side benefit!

[pcgizzmo]

I have yet to see anyone post what an open carry bill would look like that would make everyone happy.

I see it as a no win situation in that CHL's are going to continue to be concerned about postings that keep them out with Open Carry.

I don't want my current rights to change but I do want open carry. I can't think of a way to get that w/out possibly taking a chance on a few things changing. I haven't seen anyone post a good solution on how to change w/out causing some issues. So, I'm curious if those CHL'ers that say they are for Open Carry really are for it or are they just saying that because there for 2nd Amendment rights but would prefer not to rock the boat because we have it pretty good right now as is.

[74novaman]

With all the talk about §30.06 being changed, let's look at the positive side - every single current 30.06 sign, every last one of them, would be instantly invalid overnight over the entire state, thanks to those few minor wording changes. How many places are going to immediately go to the new code and update their signs to keep them compliant? If you don't want to carry openly past those "old" signs, stay concealed and relish the fact that you reap a nifty little side benefit!

Probably every single one that had someone open carry into their place of business. If they went through the trouble to ban CC, they're sure not going to be fans of open carry.

This is not an actual benefit.

[74novaman]

Speaking of 30.06, this is my concern for OC without the right backing and information campaign (that means more than just yelling at people for being anti constitution and calling legislators)

Some local "newsbabe" as Rush would put it is going to actually do the tiny bit of research needed to run a story on OC that tells everyone the only way they can keep "people from walking around with a (add intimidating and concerned emphasis here) handgun out in the open" is to post this nifty little sign (camera pan to a compliant 30.06). In effect, we may end up educating a lot of people about how to ban carry who were previously unaware that they could or had to post more than a "gunbusters" sign if they don't like open carry.

Anyone feel free to poke holes in my theory, but given the amount of media attention given to campus carry, I think it's safe to say any law changed regarding guns in Texas is a free chance at a shock and awe news story.

Heck, if a viable attempt at OC is made, one might consider going into business manufacturing 30.06 signs...I bet you could make a pretty penny.

[denwego]

With all the talk about §30.06 being changed, let's look at the positive side - every single current 30.06 sign, every last one of them, would be instantly invalid overnight over the entire state, thanks to those few minor wording changes. How many places are going to immediately go to the new code and update their signs to keep them compliant? If you don't want to carry openly past those "old" signs, stay concealed and relish the fact that you reap a nifty little side benefit!

Probably every single one that had someone open carry into their place of business. If they went through the trouble to ban CC, they're sure not going to be fans of open carry.

This is not an actual benefit.

That reminds me of when I lived in Virginia. I would openly carry to most places, and if I forgot where I had gone while running errands, I could look for the gunbuster signs that sprang up like magic minutes after I had been thrown out in handcuffs. Oh, wait, that never happened.

Houston is the biggest city in Texas and the city with the greatest potential for a §30.06 posting out of sheer volume of locations, and in 1.5 years I have never seen a valid sign. Everyone in the state with a brain already knows people can carry handguns in Texas, and if they wanted to keep CHLers out, nothing has ever stopped them from posting a sign. Saying that they're going to crop up everywhere overnight is like when people said there would be "blood in the streets" in 1995.

Also, when I was in Virginia, aside from gun-rights gatherings or shooting ranges, I never saw another person OCing. It wasn't common. But it was legal. Making it legal in Texas is still a net gain towards more freedom.

[zero4o3]

I have yet to see anyone post what an open carry bill would look like that would make everyone happy.

I see it as a no win situation in that CHL's are going to continue to be concerned about postings that keep them out with Open Carry.

I don't want my current rights to change but I do want open carry. I can't think of a way to get that w/out possibly taking a chance on a few things changing. I haven't seen anyone post a good solution on how to change w/out causing some issues. So, I'm curious if those CHL'ers that say they are for Open Carry really are for it or are they just saying that because there for 2nd Amendment rights but would prefer not to rock the boat because we have it pretty good right now as is.

I think a good solution would be to make OC not require a licenses and let any form of gunbuster sign give notice not to carry.

[Oldgringo]

I have yet to see anyone post what an open carry bill would look like that would make everyone happy.

I see it as a no win situation in that CHL's are going to continue to be concerned about postings that keep them out with Open Carry.

I don't want my current rights to change but I do want open carry. I can't think of a way to get that w/out possibly taking a chance on a few things changing. I haven't seen anyone post a good solution on how to change w/out causing some issues. So, I'm curious if those CHL'ers that say they are for Open Carry really are for it or are they just saying that because there for 2nd Amendment rights but would prefer not to rock the boat because we have it pretty good right now as is.

I think a good solution would be to make OC not require a licenses and let any form of gunbuster sign give notice not to carry.

Whatever are you proposing?

"any form of gunbuster sign" is all it takes in many, if not most other, states to provide notice that I'm not welcome. Surely, this is not what you're suggesting for Texas? Think about it, look here and get back with us.

[zero4o3]

I have yet to see anyone post what an open carry bill would look like that would make everyone happy.

I see it as a no win situation in that CHL's are going to continue to be concerned about postings that keep them out with Open Carry.

I don't want my current rights to change but I do want open carry. I can't think of a way to get that w/out possibly taking a chance on a few things changing. I haven't seen anyone post a good solution on how to change w/out causing some issues. So, I'm curious if those CHL'ers that say they are for Open Carry really are for it or are they just saying that because there for 2nd Amendment rights but would prefer not to rock the boat because we have it pretty good right now as is.

I think a good solution would be to make OC not require a licenses and let any form of gunbuster sign give notice not to carry.

Whatever are you proposing?

"any form of gunbuster sign" is all it takes in many, if not most other, states to provide notice that I'm not welcome. Surely, this is not what you're suggesting for Texas? Think about it, look here and get back with us.

I figured you would like that more then attaching it to your CHL and 30.06 sign, and it would at least get their foot in the door, pcgizzmo asked for a solution that would not effect CHL and there it is


in fact

Legalized OC would be nice to have but it's not necessary and it dang sure isn't needed at the expense of our current CC laws and Texas' unique 30.06 sign.

a direct qoute fom you, and it meets all of yoru requirements also

[cbr600]

Whatever are you proposing?

It sounds like he's proposing that 30.05 and 30.06 stay the same.

The way they're written now, a property owner can currently post generic signs (no special language or size required by law) to ban cameras, cell phones, rifles, laptops, pocket knives, etc. on their property.

They can also post a generic sign prohibiting handguns but that would currently only apply to (unlicensed) travelers, armed security guards (e.g. on lunch break) and other special cases. Why? Because 30.05 has clauses that say if the basis for trespassing is handguns are prohibited, it "does not apply" to peace officers and "It is a defense to prosecution" if "the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying."

There's no 30.05 exemption for open carry (except by cops) and if the 30.05/30.06 laws don't change, that will remain the same.

[03Lightningrocks]

A former (banned) Member of TexasCHLforum claims to have written it and I suspect this is true.

Why did you feel the need to add the "(banned)" modifer. I want open-carry. Are you going to ban me, too?

I don't know about everyone else, but I would if you got banned for being a wise acre.

[pcgizzmo]

I have yet to see anyone post what an open carry bill would look like that would make everyone happy.

I see it as a no win situation in that CHL's are going to continue to be concerned about postings that keep them out with Open Carry.

I don't want my current rights to change but I do want open carry. I can't think of a way to get that w/out possibly taking a chance on a few things changing. I haven't seen anyone post a good solution on how to change w/out causing some issues. So, I'm curious if those CHL'ers that say they are for Open Carry really are for it or are they just saying that because there for 2nd Amendment rights but would prefer not to rock the boat because we have it pretty good right now as is.

I think a good solution would be to make OC not require a licenses and let any form of gunbuster sign give notice not to carry.

That's what I'm saying. There is no good way to have OC and not at least have some possibility of changing the current CHL laws or at least the possibility that there would be less access to places CHL's can go now. So, my best guess is that some who say they are for full 2nd amendment rights even though deep down that may be half true secretly they don't want to change anything because that would mean changing our current CHL access and possibly more 30.06 signs going up and or having to do away with them all together and allowing any "not allowed sign" to take it's place.

I'm not sure you can make the OC omelet w/out breaking some eggs.

[canvasbck]

I have yet to see anyone post what an open carry bill would look like that would make everyone happy.

I see it as a no win situation in that CHL's are going to continue to be concerned about postings that keep them out with Open Carry.

I don't want my current rights to change but I do want open carry. I can't think of a way to get that w/out possibly taking a chance on a few things changing. I haven't seen anyone post a good solution on how to change w/out causing some issues. So, I'm curious if those CHL'ers that say they are for Open Carry really are for it or are they just saying that because there for 2nd Amendment rights but would prefer not to rock the boat because we have it pretty good right now as is.

I am for OC due to a rather selfish reason. I have posted on here before that we trail ride often. We are in remote areas and many equine trails are shared by mountain bikers, hikers, and occasionally ATVs. I have tried to carry IWB while trail riding, but even the supertuck gets pretty darn uncomfortable after a few hours in a saddle. I normally carry OWB while riding, but occasionally while either mounting or dismounting, the cover garment will ride up enough to expose my CCW.

I agree that we do have it pretty good right now, and I feel that the campus carry and parking lot bills are MUCH more important at this time. I still support OC, even if a few vendors that don't want me in their business anyway will start posting, to me it's better than facing possible arrest if the wind blows my vest open or a T-shirt rides up while mounting up. I would be willing to bet that there are many other (although still a small percentage) CHL holders with special activities such as mine that OC would really be beneficial. I do abhore the "scortched earth" policy that many rabid supporters of OC have demonstrated, I also take exception to the CHL folks who don't want OC if it even means that a small number of places start posting 30.06.

Before anyone throws this one out there; I am aware that accidental exposure of your CCW is not illegal. One of our members has been arrested for it and had to hire an attorney to fight the fight. I would rather avoid the chrome bracelets and the ensuing legal battle.

[zero4o3]

I have yet to see anyone post what an open carry bill would look like that would make everyone happy.

I see it as a no win situation in that CHL's are going to continue to be concerned about postings that keep them out with Open Carry.

I don't want my current rights to change but I do want open carry. I can't think of a way to get that w/out possibly taking a chance on a few things changing. I haven't seen anyone post a good solution on how to change w/out causing some issues. So, I'm curious if those CHL'ers that say they are for Open Carry really are for it or are they just saying that because there for 2nd Amendment rights but would prefer not to rock the boat because we have it pretty good right now as is.

I think a good solution would be to make OC not require a licenses and let any form of gunbuster sign give notice not to carry.

That's what I'm saying. There is no good way to have OC and not at least have some possibility of changing the current CHL laws or at least the possibility that there would be less access to places CHL's can go now. So, my best guess is that some who say they are for full 2nd amendment rights even though deep down that may be half true secretly they don't want to change anything because that would mean changing our current CHL access and possibly more 30.06 signs going up and or having to do away with them all together and allowing any "not allowed sign" to take it's place.

I'm not sure you can make the OC omelet w/out breaking some eggs.

I was proposing OC to not require a licenses because that would make it not effect CHL, the only problem is getting unlicesensed OC would be a pretty big step, so I mentioned having it start off a little more strick, where any form of notice would be enough. it wouldnt hender CHL at all but wouldnt give OC near the freedome that CHL has either because there are a lot of places posted with signs that do not prohibit CHL