HB 2756 Open Carry bill reported favorably

[Keith B]

So you believe its a useless law?

I feel right to bare arms it is a constitutional right, but the open carry bill as written is not only useless, but a dangerous one. I feel it will lead to us losing places we enjoy concealed carry in today as I am sure there will be additional 30.06 signs posted. How many? Not sure, but any is too many.

Now, as for open carry as a whole, the problem we have in Texas is it has NEVER been legal, except under certain conditions (in home, your own property, target shooting, etc.) So, while it is not practiced heavily in other states where allowed, there would be those who would purposely open carry in Texas to exercise there newly regained right. And, they would end up carrying where it will raise alarm by some. In other states that never restricted it, it is not the 'new toy' available to play with, so you just don't see it regularly. I think this is partially due to many open carry in rural areas or remote country areas, so they aren't exposed to as many eyes.

So, IF it passed for licensed open carry, even with changes that would leave the 30.06 alone and apply that any no-guns sign was valid, then it might be better. We would still see those that go the extra mile to prohibit concealed carry also due to the media exposure and hype and the visual sightings of open carriers, but I believe it would be far less 30.06 additions to restrict concealed carry.

[johnferg69]

Where in this bill does it say "licensed open carry"? All I've read is "carry a handgun".

It is totally clarified in section 40 quoted below at http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/82 ... 02756I.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SECTION 40. The change in law made by this Act relating to
the authority of a license holder to openly carry a handgun applies
to the carrying of a handgun on or after the effective date of this
Act by any person who:
(1) holds a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code, regardless of whether the person's license
was issued before, on, or after the effective date of this Act; or
(2) applies for the issuance of a license under that
subchapter, regardless of whether the person applied for the
license before, on, or after the effective date of this Act.
SECTION 41. The changes in law made by this Act to Sections
30.05, 30.06, 46.03, 46.035, and 46.15, Penal Code, apply only to an
offense committed on or after the effective date of this Act. An
offense committed before the effective date of this Act is governed
by the law in effect when the offense was committed, and the former
law is continued in effect for that purpose. For purposes of this
section, an offense was committed before the effective date of this
Act if any element of the offense occurred before that date.
SECTION 42. This Act takes effect September 1, 2011.

Ah, there it is! Boy, they sure did a good job of sneaking that little sucker down at the bottom! Not that I'm implying a conspiracy! Clearly this is an act of reckless incompetence.
Is there any way we can call or contact our reps to remove the word "openly"?

[flintknapper]

So you believe its a useless law?

I feel right to bare arms it is a constitutional right, but the open carry bill as written is not only useless, but a dangerous one. I feel it will lead to us losing places we enjoy concealed carry in today as I am sure there will be additional 30.06 signs posted. How many? Not sure, but any is too many.

Now, as for open carry as a whole, the problem we have in Texas is it has NEVER been legal, except under certain conditions (in home, your own property, target shooting, etc.) So, while it is not practiced heavily in other states where allowed, there would be those who would purposely open carry in Texas to exercise there newly regained right. And, they would end up carrying where it will raise alarm by some. In other states that never restricted it, it is not the 'new toy' available to play with, so you just don't see it regularly. I think this is partially due to many open carry in rural areas or remote country areas, so they aren't exposed to as many eyes.

So, IF it passed for licensed open carry, even with changes that would leave the 30.06 alone and apply that any no-guns sign was valid, then it might be better. We would still see those that go the extra mile to prohibit concealed carry also due to the media exposure and hype and the visual sightings of open carriers, but I believe it would be far less 30.06 additions to restrict concealed carry.

Me thinks someone does not know their Texas History.

[Keith B]

So you believe its a useless law?

I feel right to bare arms it is a constitutional right, but the open carry bill as written is not only useless, but a dangerous one. I feel it will lead to us losing places we enjoy concealed carry in today as I am sure there will be additional 30.06 signs posted. How many? Not sure, but any is too many.

Now, as for open carry as a whole, the problem we have in Texas is it has NEVER been legal, except under certain conditions (in home, your own property, target shooting, etc.) So, while it is not practiced heavily in other states where allowed, there would be those who would purposely open carry in Texas to exercise there newly regained right. And, they would end up carrying where it will raise alarm by some. In other states that never restricted it, it is not the 'new toy' available to play with, so you just don't see it regularly. I think this is partially due to many open carry in rural areas or remote country areas, so they aren't exposed to as many eyes.

So, IF it passed for licensed open carry, even with changes that would leave the 30.06 alone and apply that any no-guns sign was valid, then it might be better. We would still see those that go the extra mile to prohibit concealed carry also due to the media exposure and hype and the visual sightings of open carriers, but I believe it would be far less 30.06 additions to restrict concealed carry.

Me thinks someone does not know their Texas History.

OK, hasn't been legal in any of OUR lifetimes I believe, which is never for us.

[steveincowtown]

Lets stay on track. You said "lots of people", and that is what I would dispute and have seen no evidence to support that. Do I honestly think that folks carry without a license? Yes. But I doubt that "lots" of them do so.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... rt2009.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unlawful Carry of a Weapon 2009 2523 Convictions
Poss of a weapon by a Felon 2009 1474 Convictions

Now, I will concede that weapon doesn't equal handgun all of the time. I don't know the conviction rate (and can't find it) for this crime, but I would think many more arrest are happening than conviction. I would also think that amount of people committing this crime and not getting caught is exponentially more.

[johnferg69]

So you believe its a useless law?

I feel right to bare arms it is a constitutional right, but the open carry bill as written is not only useless, but a dangerous one. I feel it will lead to us losing places we enjoy concealed carry in today as I am sure there will be additional 30.06 signs posted. How many? Not sure, but any is too many.

Now, as for open carry as a whole, the problem we have in Texas is it has NEVER been legal, except under certain conditions (in home, your own property, target shooting, etc.) So, while it is not practiced heavily in other states where allowed, there would be those who would purposely open carry in Texas to exercise there newly regained right. And, they would end up carrying where it will raise alarm by some. In other states that never restricted it, it is not the 'new toy' available to play with, so you just don't see it regularly. I think this is partially due to many open carry in rural areas or remote country areas, so they aren't exposed to as many eyes.

So, IF it passed for licensed open carry, even with changes that would leave the 30.06 alone and apply that any no-guns sign was valid, then it might be better. We would still see those that go the extra mile to prohibit concealed carry also due to the media exposure and hype and the visual sightings of open carriers, but I believe it would be far less 30.06 additions to restrict concealed carry.

What is considered practiced heavily? It's my understanding that CHL holders make up a small percentage of the population. Of that percentage even less will open carry. I would think most CHL holders would practice some restraint even if some are my fellow Texans.
I definitely see where the 30.06 signaled will be an issue. Think maybe we could call some reps and have em leave the 30.06 sign alone for CC and adopt a new sign for OC? Or is it a waste and might hinder what we got so we should just scrap the whole thing?

[74novaman]

I definitely see where the 30.06 signaled will be an issue. Think maybe we could call some reps and have em leave the 30.06 sign alone for CC and adopt a new sign for OC? Or is it a waste and might hinder what we got so we should just scrap the whole thing?

I don't know, but considering the unique status of a 30.06 sign in Texas, and that this will be affecting Texas, I think we can all agree that maybe Texans should be deciding how we want to push for OC and when?

[johnferg69]

I definitely see where the 30.06 signaled will be an issue. Think maybe we could call some reps and have em leave the 30.06 sign alone for CC and adopt a new sign for OC? Or is it a waste and might hinder what we got so we should just scrap the whole thing?

I don't know, but considering the unique status of a 30.06 sign in Texas, and that this will be affecting Texas, I think we can all agree that maybe Texans should be deciding how we want to push for OC and when?

So what are you pushing for and when?

[JKTex]

Ah, there it is! Boy, they sure did a good job of sneaking that little sucker down at the bottom! Not that I'm implying a conspiracy! Clearly this is an act of reckless incompetence.

Is there any way we can call or contact our reps to remove the word "openly"?

Inexperience certainly plays a part.

You can always contact your reps and senators about anything. In this case, contact the rep that introduced it, as well as your rep so yours knows what's on your mind.

[flintknapper]

So you believe its a useless law?

I feel right to bare arms it is a constitutional right, but the open carry bill as written is not only useless, but a dangerous one. I feel it will lead to us losing places we enjoy concealed carry in today as I am sure there will be additional 30.06 signs posted. How many? Not sure, but any is too many.

Now, as for open carry as a whole, the problem we have in Texas is it has NEVER been legal, except under certain conditions (in home, your own property, target shooting, etc.) So, while it is not practiced heavily in other states where allowed, there would be those who would purposely open carry in Texas to exercise there newly regained right. And, they would end up carrying where it will raise alarm by some. In other states that never restricted it, it is not the 'new toy' available to play with, so you just don't see it regularly. I think this is partially due to many open carry in rural areas or remote country areas, so they aren't exposed to as many eyes.

So, IF it passed for licensed open carry, even with changes that would leave the 30.06 alone and apply that any no-guns sign was valid, then it might be better. We would still see those that go the extra mile to prohibit concealed carry also due to the media exposure and hype and the visual sightings of open carriers, but I believe it would be far less 30.06 additions to restrict concealed carry.

Me thinks someone does not know their Texas History.

OK, hasn't been legal in any of OUR lifetimes I believe, which is never for us.

Still legal when "traveling" always has been.

[johnferg69]

Ah, there it is! Boy, they sure did a good job of sneaking that little sucker down at the bottom! Not that I'm implying a conspiracy! Clearly this is an act of reckless incompetence.

Is there any way we can call or contact our reps to remove the word "openly"?

Inexperience certainly plays a part.

You can always contact your reps and senators about anything. In this case, contact the rep that introduced it, as well as your rep so yours knows what's on your mind.

Been doing that this week. Lavender, Gooden, Pitts, White. Made calls and sent emails asking that the bill be phrased "open carry or conceal carry" in all locations. Also that 30.06 be left alone and used for CC only and a official "gun buster" type sign be used for OC only.

[flintknapper]

johnferg69 wrote:

What is considered practiced heavily? It's my understanding that CHL holders make up a small percentage of the population. Of that percentage even less will open carry.

^^^^^^^^^^Correct! The idea that multitudes of businesses will put up 30.06 signs owing to the "sightings" of OCer's just doesn't add up. OCer's will in fact be pretty rare (in terms of the entire populace). The danger of 30.06 appearing would come from one source (The Media)! Hence, the need to educate the public prior to any serious attempt to get OC in Texas.

I would think most CHL holders would practice some restraint even if some are my fellow Texans.

Hopefully, those who would OC would also recognize the need to be discrete in certain circumstances, that is true with most things in life!

I definitely see where the 30.06 sign will be an issue.

As the bill is currently written, you are correct, I do not like it either. In fact, if anti-gunners would stop and think about it, they should actually be FOR the bill as written.

Think maybe we could call some reps and have em leave the 30.06 sign alone for CC and adopt a new sign for OC?

I think most agree...that CC and OC need to separated (as issues), but I believe Charles is absolutely correct in saying the legislature would never require two signs to be posted by businesses. My proposal would be split the current sign in two (vertically), leaving the same overall size, but stating the requirements for OC and CC respectively.

We do NOT want any kind of a "generic" sign or "small" sign to address OC if it were to pass. The reason is simple: If a small (or generic) sign would suffice for OC, then it will be argued later...that the same should be good enough for CC. We lose ground that way.

[Keith B]

So you believe its a useless law?

I feel right to bare arms it is a constitutional right, but the open carry bill as written is not only useless, but a dangerous one. I feel it will lead to us losing places we enjoy concealed carry in today as I am sure there will be additional 30.06 signs posted. How many? Not sure, but any is too many.

Now, as for open carry as a whole, the problem we have in Texas is it has NEVER been legal, except under certain conditions (in home, your own property, target shooting, etc.) So, while it is not practiced heavily in other states where allowed, there would be those who would purposely open carry in Texas to exercise there newly regained right. And, they would end up carrying where it will raise alarm by some. In other states that never restricted it, it is not the 'new toy' available to play with, so you just don't see it regularly. I think this is partially due to many open carry in rural areas or remote country areas, so they aren't exposed to as many eyes.

So, IF it passed for licensed open carry, even with changes that would leave the 30.06 alone and apply that any no-guns sign was valid, then it might be better. We would still see those that go the extra mile to prohibit concealed carry also due to the media exposure and hype and the visual sightings of open carriers, but I believe it would be far less 30.06 additions to restrict concealed carry.

Me thinks someone does not know their Texas History.

OK, hasn't been legal in any of OUR lifetimes I believe, which is never for us.

Still legal when "traveling" always has been.

OK, now you're nitpicking.

My 'except under certain conditons...etc.' above covers those not mentioned. But you have to agree that 'in general' open carry is illegal in Texas.

[G.A. Heath]

I actually discussed this bill with an elected peace officer (still required to be TCLEOS certified) and basically this is how he envisions things happening at first.
<complainant> He can't carry a gun in here, we have a no guns sign on the door.
<officer> That is not the right sign. You have to post a VERY specific sign, or give them a written note with very specific wording, or simply ask them not to enter while carrying.
<complainant> What is the right sign?
<officer> The language and requirements are in Texas Penal Code section 30.06
<complainant> Thank you.

The important thing to note is that the people afraid of a man with a gun will not give that man verbal notice, nor will they give them a handbill/flyer/whatever that qualifies for TPC 30.06 notice after all that would require approaching an armed man who they are afraid of and potentially upsetting them. So in essence you will see ignorance increasing the call volume to LE, which will prompt them to advise businesses on how to properly post. And that I assure you will lead to more businesses posting a compliant 30.06 sign.

[johnferg69]

The way I look at it, if their so dead set against any firearm being on their property they can afford a $10 sign.