Encounter with Round Rock PD

[speedsix]

...I was always amused(not amazed) that no matter what violation I stopped a citizen for, they always had something else that they thought I should be doing...and weren't bashful about telling me so..."Why aren't you out there catching REAL criminals?" and so forth...my answer was "Because you have made it necessary for me to stop and deal with you instead because of your speeding, headlight out, or whatever the violation"...it's childish to do wrong, get caught at it, then try to pick apart the officer who stopped you...it's mature to own up , take the warning or ticket, and go on with life...
...attitudes ARE important...an officer will usually respond to one, be it good or bad...with the same...not always, but usually...we should own up to our mistakes and deal with them, instead of lyin' and denyin'...and pointing the blame elsewhere...I've been warned a lot more than written in the last 35 years...because I honestly admit my fault in a friendly, respectful manner, and ask for mercy when I 've sinned...only once did that not get me a warning...in a school zone that I hadn't realized I'd entered...and where it comes to kids, I understand the strictness...cops are people, too, and will treat us with the same respect we extend to them...with few exceptions...

"I disagree with saying cops will treat you with the same respect you show them..."

*...if you mean not all cops handle themselves well...I agree...if you mean you expect for a person to be rude and arrogant to an officer, and have his attitude still disposed towards giving him a warning, and not a ticket, and being understanding as to why he violated a traffic or other law...not many human beings will give us their best once we've shown them our worst...I'm not talking about videos, but actual life experiences on the street...give ANYONE a hard time as they try to do their job, and you'll find yourself getting smaller portions...I've stopped a belligerant, overbearing, down-your-throat attitude from a cop in mid-sentence and gotten the officer's apology after I corrected his attitude...and I had run a red light...and I didn't get a ticket...there are exceptions to all rules...but I said USUALLY an officer will be as friendly and cooperative as you are...and it's NOT unprofessional for him to become very businesslike and go strictly by the book once someone has shown him disrespect and attitude...it'll happen in a hospital, a hamburger joint, an automotive repair shop, and it will surely happen on the street...

"Cops should always remain calm and professional, there are a few videos showing cops doing just that."

.*..they can do that...and still write you a ticket...because of the way you treated them...instead of a friendly warning...

"They shouldn't lose their cool when someone asks a question, or even gets upset. If you can't deal with people, you applied to the wrong job buddy."


*...I agree...his choice of words is always his responsibility...but being friendly and understanding is not required when a "customer" is not polite and cooperative...

"How many of us would lose our jobs if we quit acting professional when dealing with a problem customer? "

*...again...rudeness and yelling is not professional...but you don't get any more than a person has to give you when you treat them rudely...cops are no different..."the breaks" and "benefit of the doubt" and "extra onions" can be freely given...or withheld...and, even though he continued "acting professional"..I've got a ticket I didn't have to have...because I treated him badly and alienated his good will!!!

"Yes, there are amazing men and women LEOs out there. But the few who somehow got hired with their attitudes and power trips make some of us leary when dealing with any Leo.

"

*...I'll bet we can agree on this...every LEO SHOULD approach us with a professional, business-like, respectful manner...how we respond to him/her will surely affect his/her decisions with respect to whether the ticket is issued or only a warning...

[PUCKER]

I know for a fact that two departments in East Texas told there officers to step up the citations for revenue.

They needed another patrol SUV and they needed two more slots filled.

That is DEAD wrong! Citations are to be about safety NOT a fund raiser!!!

I got a ticket (80 in a 65, apparently I-45 had just gone from the 70 mph zone to 65 mph) in my wife's car on my way to Houston a few weeks back....the Trooper gave me the "safety" speech. Like I told him, "I am going with the flow of traffic." Just for grins, I decided to follow the 65 mph limit all the way from there (mile marker 98) South to Houston....I literally got ran over! It was unsafe in my opinion. I thought about contacting the officer and letting him know that it wasn't safe, in my opinion, to go that slow on that road....but I was unable to find an email/phone number for him via a few minutes of web searching....and I didn't feel it was worth it to contact DPS and go through those channels, but I thought a sincere/friendly conversation of real-world experience might make him think about it....nah....it REALLY is about the revenue! So, I bought a radar detector when I got back in town.

[A-R]

....I literally got ran over!

WOW! I'm amazed you're even alive to tell the tale. How fast was the object going that literally ran you over?

[PUCKER]

....I literally got ran over!

WOW! I'm amazed you're even alive to tell the tale. How fast was the object going that literally ran you over?

I know, I had to go through hours of intensive (cigar smoking) therapy to recover!

80mph!

[RottenApple]

I got a ticket (80 in a 65, apparently I-45 had just gone from the 70 mph zone to 65 mph) in my wife's car on my way to Houston a few weeks back....the Trooper gave me the "safety" speech. Like I told him, "I am going with the flow of traffic." Just for grins, I decided to follow the 65 mph limit all the way from there (mile marker 98) South to Houston....I literally got ran over! It was unsafe in my opinion. I thought about contacting the officer and letting him know that it wasn't safe, in my opinion, to go that slow on that road....but I was unable to find an email/phone number for him via a few minutes of web searching....and I didn't feel it was worth it to contact DPS and go through those channels, but I thought a sincere/friendly conversation of real-world experience might make him think about it....nah....it REALLY is about the revenue! So, I bought a radar detector when I got back in town.

The laws in many states say that you cannot exceed the speed limit, but also state that you must maintain speed with the flow of traffic. So if traffic is moving at 80 and maintaining speed with traffic, you are speeding. If traffic is doing 80 and you are doing 65, then you are impeding the flow of traffic. Either way, you are in the wrong and they can write you a ticket. IMHO this is what proves that it's more about revenue than about safety.

[speedsix]

...you can only get a ticket for driving too far below the posted speed limit...there is no violation for driving 60 in a 60...not even if everyone else's doing 80...it just ain't so...impeding traffic's when you're driving 15-20 miles under the posted speed and usually then, only if you're in the left lane...

http://law.onecle.com/texas/transportat ... 63.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and "normal and reasonable" does NOT mean above the posted speed limit...
...don't know about other states but I doubt seriously you can get an "impeding" type ticket if you're doing the posted speed...it flies in the face of law...I'd like to see the statute...

[RottenApple]

...you can only get a ticket for driving too far below the posted speed limit...there is no violation for driving 60 in a 60...not even if everyone else's doing 80...it just ain't so...impeding traffic's when you're driving 15-20 miles under the posted speed and usually then, only if you're in the left lane...

With all due respect, from my own personal experience I believe you are mistaken.

I was pulled over just north of Austin a few years ago. I was in an Volvo VT-770 headed SB on I-35. Everyone around me was doing at least 75 while I was doing 65 in the 2nd right lane (a travel lane). A state trooper lit me up, pulled me over, and gave me a warning for impeding the flow of traffic. In California a few years before that I was driving an '04 Freightliner Columbia on CA-99. The speed limit in that area is 65mph for non-trucks, and 55-mph for trucks. I was doing 55mph while everyone around me was doing at least 70. I was pulled over and given a ticket for impeding the flow of traffic.

EDIT: While driving truck I always stuck to the speed limit. It's only in my personal vehicles that I have a lead foot.

[srothstein]

http://law.onecle.com/texas/transportat ... 63.00.html and "normal and reasonable" does NOT mean above the posted speed limit.

I beg to differ, sir. Considering the way Texas speed laws are written, normal and reasonable has nothing to do with the posted limit. Remember that the speed limit is what is "reasonable and prudent", and the posted limit is only a prima facie case of reasonable and prudent. This is a slightly different term than normal and reasonable, which clearly implies maintaining the flow of traffic (as defining normal) as long as it is reasonable. If the traffic flow is higher than the posted limit (as it quite often is in Texas), I could see a ticket for impeding while you were technically speeding (at least a prima facie case).

To me, a much more important question is if it is possible to impede traffic if there is another lane for them to go around you. I have always been taught that to write an impeding ticket, I would need to show that some cars were being held up by the traffic. This is almost impossible on a multi-lane highway. I could write the impeding ticket then only if they were going slower than the posted minimum speed, as noted in subsection (b) of the section you quoted (545.363 of the Transportation Code for any who are looking for it).

I will agree that our speed limit laws (both maximum and minimum) are poorly worded for enforcement and are generally applied by enforcing the signs.

[mgood]

To me, a much more important question is if it is possible to impede traffic if there is another lane for them to go around you. I have always been taught that to write an impeding ticket, I would need to show that some cars were being held up by the traffic. This is almost impossible on a multi-lane highway. I could write the impeding ticket then only if they were going slower than the posted minimum speed, as noted in subsection (b) of the section you quoted (545.363 of the Transportation Code for any who are looking for it).

But cars driving side-by-side, well below the limit, impeding traffic that is stacking up behind them . . . should be a hangin' offense!

And I'll tell you where you can catch them.
Going West out of Lubbock on Hwy 114, as the road goes by what used to be Reese AFB (now Reese Center which is, uh, a business park, I guess) the speed limit changes from 55 to 70 (65 at night).
EVERY DAY people will drive for several miles beyond that, in both lanes, doing 50-55mph with 4 to 12 vehicles stacked up behind them which can't pass because the slow pokes are driving side by side. Same spot, all the time. I don't get it. Once upon a time, that was where you were going past the end of the runways of the old AFB and I atributed it to rubberneckers watching the planes take off and land. But it hasn't been an AFB in many years and there's still a pile up at the same spot ever day.


Or the really cool one, and I've seen this all over the country when I used to drive a truck, is when the LEO is cruising around about 5 mph below the speed limit and everyone is afraid to pass him. I've seen traffic backed up for miles in this parade. I know that guy is up there in his car laughing about it.

[RottenApple]

Or the really cool one, and I've seen this all over the country when I used to drive a truck, is when the LEO is cruising around about 5 mph below the speed limit and everyone is afraid to pass him. I've seen traffic backed up for miles in this parade. I know that guy is up there in his car laughing about it.

I love that one. I was rolling through NM one time and came up on that very same situation. He had his ears on and we started jackjawing about it. He said he loved to do it to mess with people. Even gave me a wave as I passed him.

[speedsix]

...someone's going to have to show me in the traffic code where a trooper can write you for impeding if you're in the right lanes or lane and doing the speed limit...before I believe it...I'd have challenged that state trooper in court...made him write me a ticket, warning or not, and fought it...unless there was a sign saying trucks keep to right lane or such, his stop was bogus...
...Kalifornia...I won't even argue what happens there...but I would like to see it in traffic law ...
...srothstein, I'm going to have to see it in the law before I believe that normal or reasonable means ABOVE the posted limit ...(the only way that would be legal is if there were an officer directing traffic...he has superiority above all signs and signals.)...just because the majority of other drivers is violating the speed laws, it's ridiculous to say you can be punished for not violating it along with them...without you being in the wrong lane where it's marked for slower traffic to stay right or left for passing only...it just won't fly....

[gigag04]

He's right. Here.

Sec. 545.351.  MAXIMUM SPEED REQUIREMENT. (a) An operator may not drive at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances then existing.

That's the wording of the preamble to the speeding subchapter (which is H).

Sec. 545.352.  PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.

So - you get to prove the reasonableness and prudentness to judge/jury deciding the case.

[speedsix]

...I feel all better now...I was plumb upset thinking that I could be punished for doing right when everyone else was doing wrong...makes no sense at all...

[Oldgringo]

I know for a fact that two departments in East Texas told there officers to step up the citations for revenue.

They needed another patrol SUV and they needed two more slots filled.

That is DEAD wrong! Citations are to be about safety NOT a fund raiser!!!

I wish the police would increase patrols and citations on my 30 mph residential street. I don't care why, as long as they do it. It just fries my shorts to look out my LR or Kitchen window and see oblivions zooming by at 60mph in both directions.

The City Manager says,"well, er...uh they don't like to issue tickets". Well, er...uh they don't mind citing an OTR trucker who misses the bypass sign and drives through this hamlet. They don't want to issue citations in town because everybody is someone's 2nd or 3rd cousin or something.

There, I'm feeling better already. Y'al have a nice day.

[pcgizzmo]

They don't want to issue citations in town because everybody is someone's 2nd or 3rd cousin or something.

Just call up all your cousins and tell them to slow down.