Baylor Medical Plaza

[Ravendove]

I make weekly visits to Baylor Medical Plaza and I noticed a sign at the entrance that says "State law prohibits carrying handguns on these premises". Now, I've been abiding by what that sign says but I wanted to ask if anyone knows if that actually applies to CHL holders. I know we can't carry in hospitals but I don't think this meets that criteria. It's a small building with a handful of private practices. The address is 7150 North President George Bush Highway, Garland. Anyone have any information on this? I'd very much appreciate it.

[WildBill]

I know we can't carry in hospitals but I don't think this meets that criteria.

This is old information. The more recent CHL laws allow carry in hospitals as long as they aren't posted with a valid 30.06 sign.

[seamusTX]

Baylor is a university. Many of their facilities are part of medical schools. They also have complicated relationships with companies that are not part of the university.

I'm sure if you call them, they will give you a definitive answer.

- Jim

[Reloader]

If you call them, they will say, "Of Course you CANNOT!"

[seamusTX]

Yep.

- Jim

[Ravendove]

Ok, that sounds about like what I expected. I figured there would be some reason I couldn't carry there.

The no carrying in hospitals comes from the 2009-2010 pdf on the TXDPS website. I figured that would be the most current source. Could you guys direct me to something more accurate? Thanks again for all your input.

[rtschl]

Here is the statute that makes carrying in a hospital (church, amusement park etc.) legal for chl:

46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE

This is what most people see and stop:

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other
established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.


But notice the following that was added to the law:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Without the proper 30.06 notice, it no longer applies.

Ron

[seamusTX]

The complicated situation for hospitals that are not medical schools (or federal property, like the VA) is in Penal Code 46.035, which I will try to quote as briefly as possible:

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

In plain English, the former prohibitions against carrying hospitals are not in effect unless the hospital posts a valid 30.06 sign.

A medical school facility, being a school, you would be sticking out your neck for a possible felony conviction. We all know about federal facilities.

I don't lose a lot of sleep over gray areas. The problem with hospitals and clinics is that (a) you may be asked to undress or have someone lay hands on you with no notice, and (b) many—though by no means all—personnel who work in these institutions are hostile to the right to keep and bear arms.

- Jim

[Ravendove]

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for pointing that out. I was reading that section on my phone yesterday so I must have grazed over the last part. I spend a lot of my time staring at computer screens so I've developed the bad habit of skipping over things when I'm reading. I'm trying very hard now to break myself of that habit. Thanks again, guys. You were all very helpful.

[couzin]

Most of the Baylor Dr. and lab offices I've been in are not posted. Their hospitals and outpatient units are posted (again, the ones I've been in - Fort Worth hospital district (Hospital and outpatient), Grapevine (hospital and offices - same building), the Baylor Terrell Dr. and lab offices).

[wgoforth]

Depending on which door, the Baylor in Dallas was properly posted. Some doors were and some were not... but there was a valid 30.06. My son was there for a month and wished it was otherwise...

[mikeloc]

We always refer to Section 46.035, but we seem to forget that a hospital must post under 411.204
GC §411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,
or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements
of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign
include on its face the number "51".
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
Therefore a hospital is required to post a sign saying it’s illegal to carry even though we can carry as long as they do not post 30.06.

Mike

[wgoforth]

We always refer to Section 46.035, but we seem to forget that a hospital must post under 411.204
GC §411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,
or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements
of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign
include on its face the number "51".
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
Therefore a hospital is required to post a sign saying it’s illegal to carry even though we can carry as long as they do not post 30.06.

Mike

No... a hospital is not required to post... same with a church also listed. Penal codes are written like the Constitution. When changed, they do not remove a law, they amend it in another section. This law WAS the law but amended by legislation 2 years later. Read to the end of the section and you will see: (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

[Keith B]

We always refer to Section 46.035, but we seem to forget that a hospital must post under 411.204
GC §411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,
or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements
of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign
include on its face the number "51".
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
Therefore a hospital is required to post a sign saying it’s illegal to carry even though we can carry as long as they do not post 30.06.

Mike

No... a hospital is not required to post... same with a church also listed. Penal codes are written like the Constitution. When changed, they do not remove a law, they amend it in another section. This law WAS the law but amended by legislation 2 years later. Read to the end of the section and you will see: (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Actually, yes they are required to post. They must post the 51% sign with the verbiage only, not the red 51%. However, this doesn't cause use to not be able to carry unless they post a 30.06. Mike's comments were correct.