Teaching kids about firearms

[KBCraig]

My youngest just turned 4 in November. We had planned to take him to the range Thursday morning, for his first time to shoot.

Well... he's 4. That means on some days he's 2, and on other days he's 16, and it can be tough to tell the difference. He was in full blown whiny tantrum mode Thursday, so the parental units made the executive decision that it wasn't the proper day.

Instead of going to the range (too busy on the weekends), in the morning we're going to use our backyard range: .22 rifle, solid backstop, and SuperColibri ammo. We'll use small balloons as reactive targets, for the "I did it!" factor.

I'm going to sneak out first thing in the morning and see if the SuperColibri will feed in my grandfather's Model 62 Winchester (which has approximately 'leventy-jillion rounds through it, courtesy of four generations of boys).

If the SuperColibri won't work in the Winny, I know it will feed in Dad's Mossberg Model 42M(c). I just have to hope I can adjust the scope within "minute of balloon at 25 feet".

The Mossberg was the first gun I shot, at age 3. The Winchester was what I was free to tote to the woods at age 10, to keep the world safe from tin cans.

I have other .22 rifles, but those are the only ones short/light enough for him to even pretend to handle, even with dad right there assisting.

Kevin

[racer32]

My 6-y-o got her pink Crickett for Christmas this year. The wife and I both have a CHL, and have been taking her to the local indoor range with us since she was a baby. We've also been teaching her about gun safety since she was a toddler. She's very responsible for her age, and has always been mindful of safety when it comes to guns. She sees them on a daily basis, but hasn't ever shown much interest in shooting until she saw a Crickett at Gander Mountain a few months ago. Her training on how to shoot isn't going to progress very quickly I'm afraid. Since she got her rifle we've only been able to make one range trip so far, and Iended it the moment she started showing signs of frustration. She's able to load the rifle fine and lock the bolt, but isn't strong enough to cock it easily...the Crickett isn't a really good design for little girls. I set up the target @ 10 feet so she would be able to hit it easily, but she got frustrated when I tried to teach her how to use the sights. I may have to work with her on sighting here at home before I take her back to the range for more "live fire". Anyone have suggestions? Should I teach her to shoot off a benchrest first?

[KBCraig]

We had a blast on our "backyard range" today.

Participants:
4 year old son
11 year old son
17 year old daughter
16 year old best girlfriend

Range officers:
The Missus and I

The range:
10 yards, with a backstop of solid 4x4s stacked 4 feet high, backed by a wooden fence, with nothing in the danger zone behind. We stapled balloons up as targets, and also retrieved some of those little ornamental pumpkins and squash from the compost pile.

The armament:
.22 SuperColibri ammo (20 grain bullet, primer only (no powder), 500fps)
Winchester Model 62
Mossberg M42C(m)
Romanian M1969 trainer

We took things one shooter at a time. The boys shot prone. The girls shot sitting. My daughter and 11yo son have shot about the same amount, so they're comfortable with it, and just had fun.

It was my youngest's first time. He enjoyed it, but I don't think he was really grasping cause and effect. (I would get things lined up for him. practically laying on top of him. With me holding the rifle "around" him, I'd guide his hand and tell him to pull the trigger, and the balloon would pop.)

The real joy came in watching my daughter's girlfriend. She'd never really shot before: "Well, kinda, once, I don't really know what kind of gun it was." We went over the operation, and sights, and how to hold the rifle, and how to align the sights. I had to help her the first couple of times, and by the end she was working that bolt like a pro. It was obvious when the look of relaxation and "Okay, I've got the hang of this!" came over her face.

Afterwards, she said how fun it was, and she wanted to go shooting again sometime. The really cool thing: they have some friends who immigrated from Romania, and she and my daughter spent the night there New Year's, with a crowd of Romanians and Ukrainians. She's excited to tell them about shooting a Romanian rifle.

We were shooting five apiece and then rotating. Everyone got to shoot at least four turns. I think we'll probably make time for a trip to the "real" range next weekend, so the girls can get some handgun practice. Probably some more serious rifle time, too.

Kevin

[age_ranger]

22 SuperColibri ammo...........

Will this ammo work in a 10/22? I've seen it but passed because I think it was the extreme long lead bullet in it? Can't recall if it was the same thing or not.

[KBCraig]

22 SuperColibri ammo...........

Will this ammo work in a 10/22? I've seen it but passed because I think it was the extreme long lead bullet in it? Can't recall if it was the same thing or not.

I think you're thinking about a different Colibri ammo, the 60gr "SSS" sub-sonic. Colibri is a Mexican brand, and they make several types of ammo.

The SuperColibri is primer-powered. It won't cycle a semi-auto. No need for hearing protection when fired from a rifle: it's "phfffft-twack". No louder than a good air rifle, and less muzzle energy than some. That's why I feel comfortable with (and we can get away with) using it inside the city limits in our suburban neighborhood. Technically illegal, since it's discharging a firearm inside the city limits, but certainly within the spirit of the law, because a GAMO or RWS .22 air rifle is more dangerous. Not to mention, I'm using a very solid backstop, and the bullets flatten and fall off more often than they embed in the wood.

Don't ask, don't tell.

As for the SSS, yes, you're right: I believe the long bullet won't feed in a 10/22. Not to mention, the long/slow bullet requires a very fast twist rate to achieve any kind of accuracy and avoid keyholing.

The smaller the caliber, the more sensitive to bullet weight/length, velocity and twist rates.

Kevin

[KBCraig]

If anyone is curious about the accuracy potential of the SuperColibri, here are two five-shot groups I fired today from two different Mossberg M42M(c) rifles. Range 10 yards, from a table, with a front sandbag (hardly a test of marksmanship, but this was about the ammo).





It's certainly good enough that you don't have to worry whether it's the ammo or the shooter.

Kevin

[Tote 9]

We had a blast on our "backyard range" today.

Participants:
4 year old son
11 year old son
17 year old daughter
16 year old best girlfriend

Range officers:
The Missus and I

Kevin

Boy, I'm glad to see them starting out young with good training and supervison. I had much rather see them start with rifles or shotguns or
anything else besides a BB gun.

As a boy My first gun was a BB gun and I knew it would hurt, but not kill me. As kids will be, I was careless one day and shot my eye
out . It cost me an eye and my parents a lot of grief and money. I started my son out as you are, with training, a shotgun and a rifle. No
BB guns. No offence to BB gun owners, I just had a bad experince with
them.

[GlockenHammer]

On the kids/toy gun issue, my policy was something like this. First, there's no reason not to obey the finger/trigger rule even with the toys. However, they could be pointed at things they were not willing to destroy (we were clear on the difference between guns and toy guns). Also, they were never to point the gun at another human unless that person was playing their game with them (e.g., no pointing at passing cars, a disinterested sister, etc.). It worked well for us. YMMV.

I've got more stories, but I'll have to save those for another day....

Okay, just one. The little girl, now just 8, never really took to the 9mm pistol or any of the .22 rifles we had available. Instead, she liked the P22 sized airsoft gun. Well, I finally got a real P22 .22lr pistol and now she's always begging me to go to the range.

[age_ranger]

I got a BB rifle a an early age and shot a bird on a wire which landed in my back yard and fluttered for forever before passing on. That's when I understood the power and responsibility that comes with gun ownership.

Oh, and that 80 pumps in a crossman airgun will kill birds at 25yds.

With all the airsoft "toys" on the market, it's quite easy to teach proper handling and safety. In fact, tonight under a veil of darkness and an illumnated taret at 7yds, my daughter and I unleashed the power of our new 6mm full auto P90 in the living room!! Shredded those paper targets we printed out and left enough BB's to kill the vacuum next time it goes through there! Nothing like quality time with the kids!!

[Tote 9]

I got a BB rifle a an early age and shot a bird on a wire which landed in my back yard and fluttered for forever before passing on. That's when I understood the power and responsibility that comes with gun ownership.

Oh, and that 80 pumps in a crossman airgun will kill birds at 25yds.

With all the airsoft "toys" on the market, it's quite easy to teach proper handling and safety. In fact, tonight under a veil of darkness and an illumnated taret at 7yds, my daughter and I unleashed the power of our new 6mm full auto P90 in the living room!! Shredded those paper targets we printed out and left enough BB's to kill the vacuum next time it goes through there! Nothing like quality time with the kids!!

Yes, training and supervison is the key to safe and fun shooting
. Unfortunantly I had neither one. My Father was a trucker and was
seldom home until my later years. I do not fault him for that as that
was how he made our living. What I learned I learned on my own through
experience and of cource mistakes.

[KBCraig]

I wanted to find an old kid's rifle, one from back in the day when they still called them "boys' rifles". Something like a Winchester 67A that had already been cut down, or a similar single shot .22 rifle.

No luck finding one at the Texarkana gun show, and the new stuff was all priced higher than at the local stores. So, I stopped at Gander Mtn. today and picked up a basic Crickett sporter (blued with black synthetic stock). With tax, it was $108 and change.

It's a cute little booger. Trigger needs a little honing, though. Right now you can pick it up by the trigger without firing it... the pull is heavier than the gun itself.

John David has been steadily reciting his age-adapted version of The Four Rules: "Never point guns at people or pets. Never touch the trigger until you shoot. Guns can be very dangerous." (At barely four years old, I thought the full length version would have been asking a bit much from the kid.)

It just dawned on me today why the SuperColibri ammo will have another advantage for teaching: with no hearing protection needed, we can communicate normally, and he won't have the added strangeness of wearing muffs.

Kevin

[KBCraig]

Oh, and I did see one oddball rifle that I never knew existed: a Winchester Model 55. It's a single-shot semiautomatic .22 rifle.

You read that right: single-shot semiautomatic.

It fires from an open bolt. When you load through a top trapdoor, it automatically sets the safety. Switch the safety off, pull the trigger, bolt goes forward, fires, bolt is blown back, and the empty is ejected out a port in the bottom.

Very pretty rifle with sleek lines, but no real reason to exist that I can think of. Could be why it didn't exist for long.

Kevin

[glocklvr]

Although I don't have any kids of my own I must agree with all of the posts about teaching kids about guns at an early age because that is how I learned. My dad started teaching me about guns when I was about 3 and as soon as I was big enough to handle it (about 5) he started taking me out with grandma's 410 breakover single shot and always stressed safety with an iron fist. We had some good times together which I will always miss but I understood that safety always came first. He even killed a ground squirel and showed it to me then explained that guns can do the same thing to people when not used properly. With this solid foundation my dad was able to leave his guns out and loaded with no problems from me or my sister because we knew not to touch them or else and if we had a question he was almost always willing to get the gun out and show us which took the mystery away. I am now 28 and hold a CHL but the same safety rules that my dad taught me then are very much instinct now and I honestly think that if more kids were taught about guns at an early age there would be substantialy fewer gun accidents.

[64zebra]

I don't have a problem with kids being kids and playing with toy guns/water pistols. We had toy pistols/rifles and played cops 'n robbers, cowboys 'n indians, army, etc, etc, etc; it was never an issue as we knew what play was and what real firearms were.
My dad never had a gun safe, trigger lock, or any other security device and we never played with any of the 20 some-odd weapons in the closet. We were all taught at an early age about guns, safety, proper use, etc. I shot my first air rifle at 4 years of age, .22 at 5, "Santa" brought my first shotgun (20ga Stevens single shot) at age 9, and my Win 30-30 at 10.
My 3 year old has already picked up the joy of playing shoot 'em up from other kids and I will teach him just as I was taught when the time comes.
I look forward to teaching him on the Savage Model 15-A single shot .22 I got when my dad died in 2004. He bought it by saving up 3 months of his allowance at age 14. Of all the firearms I own, it is the most-prized.

[HankB]

I was not allowed any toy guns, or even water guns. Part of me thinks that availability of toy guns might allow kids to think a real one is a toy, without any real (eddie eagle type) of education.

Everyone's kids are different - when I was growing up, I had a regular arsenal of toy guns that looked real enough to give today's child safety "experts" a fit of apoplexy, but I never confused my toys with "real" guns . . . I got my first BB gun at age 4 (it was too big for me, I couldn't cock it myself, and had to tuck the buttstock under my armpit or I couldn't reach the trigger. I soon grew into it.) and my first .22 at age 7.

Seventh grade brought me a Crosman 38C air pistol, age 13 and 8th grade graduation brought me a .22 Colt Diamondback, but I was years past my "toy gun" phase by then.

My folks did have a rule imposed when I was probably 9 or 10 that I disliked at the time, but looking back I found was very wise: When I was ALONE I could shoot and plink all I wanted, but if ANY other kid was with me, Dad had to supervise. They knew that the effective IQ of young boys is that of the smartest one divided by the number of boys present, and the likelihood of doing something stupid increases. (Fortunately, we frequently visited cousins in the boonies, so I had a chance to shoot outdoors . . . that and the range we'd built in the basement.)

Oh, one more thing . . . I grew up in Chicago, so keeping quiet about the number and type of guns in our household was taught early on.