No-Win Situation: I'll mind my own business!

[Dirty Bob]

One of my chief problems -- in retrospect -- was that I had only one level of force to apply if words didn't work. If I'd had pepper spray, or a cane, I might well have used it to try to stop the two strangling Yellow Shirt. As it was, if words were unsuccessful, I would have had no option open except to shoot. All three were large men, and all were about 30 years younger than me, so I was not confident that I could jump into the fray empty-handed. I would not, by the way, ever consider using the pistol as a striking instrument. It would be difficult to justify a situation where "pistol whipping" was appropriate, but shooting was not.

Ya'll have had some very insightful replies, and I believe that a discussion like this helps me (and others, I hope) to think about such a situation and to perhaps try to decide if there's a "trigger" action which would justify taking action.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[papajohn1964]

With all of this being said. Would deadly force have been justified? Can you draw on and possibly shoot someone to protect others?

[MasterOfNone]

One of my chief problems -- in retrospect -- was that I had only one level of force to apply if words didn't work. If I'd had pepper spray, or a cane, I might well have used it to try to stop the two strangling Yellow Shirt. As it was, if words were unsuccessful, I would have had no option open except to shoot. All three were large men, and all were about 30 years younger than me, so I was not confident that I could jump into the fray empty-handed. I would not, by the way, ever consider using the pistol as a striking instrument. It would be difficult to justify a situation where "pistol whipping" was appropriate, but shooting was not.

Ya'll have had some very insightful replies, and I believe that a discussion like this helps me (and others, I hope) to think about such a situation and to perhaps try to decide if there's a "trigger" action which would justify taking action.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

You actually had two - the threat of deadly force and the use of deadly force.
One concern I have always had with intermediate weapons is the ability to get to the handgun if the intermediates do not work. If you're close enough to spray or cane the pair of stranglers, would you still have an opportunity to get to your gun if the spray or caning was not effective?

[MasterOfNone]

With all of this being said. Would deadly force have been justified? Can you draw on and possibly shoot someone to protect others?

Generally, you can use the same force or deadly force to protect someone else as you could use to protect yourself in the same situation (PC 9.33). You just have to be aware that you may not understand the whole situation, as in this case.

[goheeled]

Good call. Seek cover, protect yourself, call the cops, provide good info, and wait for them to show up. Intervention would have been tempting but it not knowing the situation...

Good job. To be honest... my pistol is for the safety of me and mine... not them and theirs. It would take a heck of a lot for me to jump into the middle of that one.

[Gyrogearhead]

Good call. Seek cover, protect yourself, call the cops, provide good info, and wait for them to show up. Intervention would have been tempting but it not knowing the situation...

Good job. To be honest... my pistol is for the safety of me and mine... not them and theirs. It would take a heck of a lot for me to jump into the middle of that one.

I agree completely but there comes a limit when watching someone loose their life where action is imperitive if for no other reason than to be able to live with myself afterwards. As Andy says: "Remember Kitty Genovese"

Gerry

[speedsix]

...one honest question to the OP...finding yourself there in a situation with at least one and maybe two opponents...were you comfortable that you were carrying enough defensive firepower, or did you wish you had something bigger/better???