cocked and locked?

[hi-power]

I agree with everyone above saying that autoloaders should be carried cocked and locked and for the reasons each listed.

It may sound silly but I am comfortable with this type of carry probably because of many years of bird hunting and shooting skeet. Everyone's shotgun is carried fully loaded with just a small safety button between SAFE and BANG! I wouldn't have much luck if I had to wait on a bird to come within range then jump up and pump the action to get a shell in the chamber. The bird would be long gone, plus I'd only have 2 shots instead of 3.

[txinvestigator]

ru934, The reason it doesn't feel right is lack of training, IMHO. You should carry what you are comfortable with. If you are not "sold" on cocked and locked, that's okay, choose accordingly. The training environment allows you to try different things, ie...Single action, DA/SA, DAO, modes of carry etc... in the propper environment. You should avoid often changes in your mode of carry, ie Single action Saturday, DAO Sunday, etc....

I'll go one better as a supporting reason for C&L....I'd posit that, for a citizen carrying concealed, the distance is liable to be closer than for LEO engagements. Why? Two reasons: we're carrying concealed and it takes longer to present from concealment (generally speaking) than from open carry; and because we know that at least a couple of lawyers are going to be riding on each bullet, we're going to be as sure as humanly possible of our decision to present and fire, shaving more microseconds off the time from threat to fire....

I'll add that a LEO can point his pistol at the BG, while CHL folks cannot brandish a firearm. This can allow the BG to get closer. Also some people look like food to BG's, while LEOs generally do not.

So I've always felt that my offhand had better be prepared to do more work than just grabbing the other side of my pistol and supporting the shooting hand. More work as in blocking an attack, pulling some object out of the way (or into the way, as the case may be), or even simply giving a visible gesture as I shout, "Stop!" So I approach it with the thought that the most likely scenario, should I ever actually have to draw, would be a one-handed point-and-shoot for at least the first shot. Can't do that without something in the chamber on an autoloader...

Correct! The off hand, and maybe both hands, must be available for fending off the attacker or more likely attackers.

agree with one exception;

I'll add that a LEO can point his pistol at the BG, while CHL folks cannot brandish a firearm.

police officers work under chapter 9 just as non-LEOs. texas has a law against intentionally failing to conceal (which applies to CHLholders), and against pointing a firearm at a person (applies to everyone, even LEO's)

Your defense to doing so is in chapter 9. If a guy presents a knife and approaches you from say...30 feet, and demands your money, you are certainly justified in drawing your weapon and pointing it at the person.

[ru934]

some good points, i do agree with. trust me, i am in no way new to fiearms. i was lucky enouph to be born an raised in the country, were i was fishin before i could walk, an shootin not long after. an to be honest with you, im pretty dog on good at both nowdays! instead of catchin cat's an shootin sqaurls(SP?) w/ a 22, im now catchin sailfish an shootin exotics w/ a 338. there is no ''training'' that can break my skiddishness of a cocked pistola on my side. well, unless this instructer allso has phychology degree an has some way to get into my head an fix the problem. as for the bird hunting statement.....been huntin pheasant, quall, an chuckar since i was 10. rifles an shotguns.....dont need any comments.

[srothstein]

Well, let me chime in now too. I have carried cocked and locked with several different weapons. I prefer and recommend it as safe and efficient. However, the first rule I espouse is for you to have the freedom to do it your way. If you do not feel comfortable C&L for any reason, don't do it.

I have had the experience of also carrying a .45 loaded with no round in the chamber. I did this for several years as an MP, where the Army doesn't allow C&L. I never felt comfortable that way with the extra time we needed to chamber a round but we did practice many different draws where we racked the slide as part of the draw.

As others have mentioned, the problem is going to be that you may not have the time or room to do so. Consider what your response will be when a BG is at arm's length and points a knife at your stomach and asks for your money. You might be able to draw and fire a C&L pistol or a double action revolver but you won't be able to chamber a round.

For this reason, I would recommend looking at a different gun for daily carry. Consider a revolver where you might feel safe with six rounds. If you do not, like a round under the chamber in that, at least a double action revolver is still ready to fire when the chamber under the hammer is empty (the double action does rotate the next round in to fire).

As for the point about brandishing, I think TXInvestigator has it right. The laws on pointing a gun at someone apply to all of us equally, LEO or not. I know that there is always the possibility for you to be charged with failure to conceal if the officer disagrees with your reason for the threat, but I think if it was anything reasonable, you would be okay. Not pointing a gun for flipping you off, but even the LEO would get charged for that.

[Truck]

How do you carry a M9 cocked and locked?
truck

[Venus Pax]

Interesting thread.
We had this debate last Saturday in our home. Dad & dh thought it unwise to carry a 1911 C&L; I thought it unwise to carry anything without a round immediately ready.
Until I address their own concerns, which I believe were given out of love, I'll continue to carry my Bersa, as it has a decocker.

[Mithras61]

A 1911A1 is designed to be carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer back. The side safety won't even engage if the hammer isn't cocked. The grip safety is designed so that the trigger CANNOT be pulled without the grip safety being depressed. Most modern versions that are available in CA as well as TX are built so that even with the safeties not engaged, the pistol will not fire when dropped (even if the hammer is forward & the pistol is dropped on the hammer from a pretty great height).

I tried to get comfortable carrying my 1911 with no round in the chamber. I could not do so. I know that if I need it, I will need it right now! and even a slight delay could be very deadly.

I would recommend that you search out some of the "assault with a knife" videos on the web. It helps to be reminded that a BG can cover 21 feet in 2.5 seconds, and that you will be fortunate to get the gun out of the holster in that time. If you plan to be able to stop their attack, you really DON'T want to try and rack the slide as well...

[Thane]

I normally carry either a 3" 1911 or a Browning High Power. I am comfortable with both C&L, and comfortable with neither if they're unloaded.

I consider an empty chamber to be only marginally better than forgetting all your ammo at home. If Joe Bubba Mugger decides he likes your wallet but hates your face, you likely won't have time to finish loading your pistol.

7+1 of 185 grain .45 ACP+P or 13+1 of 124 grain 9mm+P.

[ru934]

startin to sound to like me some of yall have been takein to many gun classes, an need to start takein self defense classes. im a big guy an i hardly think im just gonna stand there an LET someone stab me, or knock me in the head. 80% sure i can end the sittuation, without useing deadly force! NEXT!


but anyways, like i have said before, there is no changein my mind. i am just lookin for others points of views, an im gettin some nice pro's about carryin that way.

[lrb111]

Interesting thread.
We had this debate last Saturday in our home. Dad & dh thought it unwise to carry a 1911 C&L; I thought it unwise to carry anything without a round immediately ready.
Until I address their own concerns, which I believe were given out of love, I'll continue to carry my Bersa, as it has a decocker.

You can carry the 1911 in nearly the same readiness as the Bersa. That would be one in the chamber, hammer down, and safety off. The difference would be instead of clicking off a safety, you would be cocking the hammer back, should you need it.

fwiw, your personal safety is all yours. They are not going to always follow you around, protecting you. jmo..

[jbirds1210]

....I thought it unwise to carry anything without a round immediately ready.

I could not agree with you more.

I have a hard time grasping that anyone in a true face to face encounter would have the time to chamber a round. I bet Charles could make a believer out of someone with his retention drills!

It has always struck me as a deadly mistake to carry any other way. Just my opinion...we all have to do what is good for us.

Should I ever decide to carry my 1911 (dont worry LT...I will take a picture for you) I would definitely carry it cocked and locked.

Jason

[longtooth]

Correct jbird.
IMHO, I respectfully disagree w/ lrb111. Of all the wrong carry options discussed for carrying a 1911, I consider the loaded chamber & hammer down the worst.
You can rack a slide faster than thumb a 1911 hammer.
That is a premature discharge nightmare. The awkward hand position required to do it w/ only strong hand is a good way to drop the gun. At best it is a half cock probability.

1911s were built to carry C&L. All other modes are just trading one wrong answer for a different wrong answer.
My .02 cents & many think it worth less than half that.
LT

[ru934]

''How do you carry a M9 cocked and locked?
truck''

key word....><TRIED><

[kw5kw]

....I thought it unwise to carry anything without a round immediately ready.

I could not agree with you more.

I have a hard time grasping that anyone in a true face to face encounter would have the time to chamber a round. <snip>
Jason

Too much Hollywood. People see stuff in the movies and believe. They think because character "X" in movie "Y" has time to rack the slide before anything else happens that they (the public) are brainwashed into thinking that they will have the same amount of time to react.

In the movies the actors rack the slide for effect; to let you see that they're ready for business. Just drawing a gun doesn't have the same effect as picking one up out of a desk drawer, slapping in a magazine and then racking the slide.

We must remember that Hollywood rarely reflects real life.

Russ

[ru934]

Deleted "10 Year Old Daughter" Rule.

Carlson1