cocked and locked?

[Mithras61]

I've got a question for the 1911 gurus:

If a 1911 is dropped, is there an internal device to keep the hammer from hitting the slide's end (I forgot the proper term for that part)?

Springfield Armory's newer 1911s have a titanium firing pin and a heavier firing pin spring than most other 1911s. This, combined with a hammer stop that prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled, prevents the pistol from firing when dropped on the hammer in CA tests for accidental discharge. Since the 1911 from SA is available in CA, I believe it works.

Other manufacturers use other methods (I believe Colt 80s & 1991s have the block like TXRancher metioned) but I am not familiar with all of them. All 1911s certified for sale in CA have to pass the droip test, though, so they will have something that works to prevent this type of discharge.

[flintknapper]

+1

Under the best of circumstances, knife is hard to defend against. Even someone untrained (but committed) is likely to cut you. Take a person marginally trained, and you get what TX said " you're gonna get cut".

In an air conditioned dojo that was to say the least "secure" from any outside enemy with my friends there, I was relaxed, concentrating, and knew what was coming and the blade made contact on most every occasion. I know it is said to the point of being cliche, but I would MUCH rather have someone with a gun attacking me than I would with a knife. A person's hands are just so much faster than a human reaction to them.




I believe that the common misconception when people feel that their weapon can be racked is that the fight is going to have a warning and some distance that will supply time. From the little bit that I witnessed...a skilled person with a knife will close that distance before the threat is even known and erase any chance of someone offering resistance.

You learned well.........grasshopper!

[G.C.Montgomery]

Other manufacturers use other methods (I believe Colt 80s & 1991s have the block like TXRancher metioned) but I am not familiar with all of them. All 1911s certified for sale in CA have to pass the droip test, though, so they will have something that works to prevent this type of discharge.

Les Baer, Ed Brown and others sell 1911's that lack firing pin blocks in California. All that "California Approved" means is you gave their gooberment a firearm for DESTRUCTIVE testing. My experience has been that a properly maintained 1911, even without a firing-pin block, is drop-safe for all practical purposes.

In theory, you could drop one on it's nose from sufficient height to cause it to discharge but I've never actually witnessed this. I've certainly heard of it but never seen it. I had one student bring me a 1911 that supposedly suffered such a malfunction. When I pulled his firing-pin return spring, I found it fragged and nearly a 3/4-inch shorter than my own firing-pin return spring. The student said he'd dropped the 1911 on his way to his car and that it discharged when the muzzle impacted with the ground.

The problem I have with that story is the safeties, which supposedly were engaged at the time, showed no signs of impact or stress. The student claimed, the slide supposedly over-ran the safeties and pushed the safeties out of the gun. Knowing that particular student, I suspect the gun was actually hammer down on a live round. This combined with a weak spring might have put the firing-pin close enough to a live round to ignite it on impact with the ground.

I've heard that the current 1911 pistol used by the FBI's HRT teams was tested for drop-safety in pretty extreme conditions. Tests included dropping the pistols from heights in excess of six feet as well as tests where the pistol was tossed onto conrete in a manner similar to skipping rocks across a pond. None of the pistols fired accidently during those tests from what I heard. That pistol is available commercially as the Springfield TRP Professional Model. It has no firing-pin block. It might have a titanium firing-pin and extra power firing-pin spring as that was the "cool" setup around the time the gun was introduced.

Personally, I've had ignition problems with titanium firing-pins and don't trust them. I use the extra power spring and a standard firing-pin. I check the spring every 500 rounds or once a week which ever is the longer interval.

[Mithras61]

...
It might have a titanium firing-pin and extra power firing-pin spring as that was the "cool" setup around the time the gun was introduced.

Personally, I've had ignition problems with titanium firing-pins and don't trust them. I use the extra power spring and a standard firing-pin. I check the spring every 500 rounds or once a week which ever is the longer interval.

According to the manual for Springfield's 1911s, they all come with a titanium firing pin. I've put about 2000 rds through mine since last August with no issues so far with the original firing pin, but I've heard from others that it can cause mis-fires by not striking the primer firmly enough. There are conversion kits that can replace both the pin, extra power firing pin spring and mainspring that are supposed to address that, but I haven't felt the need to install one. I can certainly see your viewpoint on them, though.

As to the FBI tests, I seem to recall that the test height was 18', but I wouldn't swear to it. I may be thinking of something else entirely (and my noggin' doesn't work as well in that regard as it once did).

[dihappy]

Excellent thread! Im new and considering a Kimber Ultra, love that gun.

I have a question. Am i correct in saying that the 1911's pose a greater risk of AD/ND when unloading?

What is the proper method of lowering the hammer/unloading a 1911 after being at C&L?

Thanks :)

[Mithras61]

Excellent thread! Im new and considering a Kimber Ultra, love that gun.

I have a question. Am i correct in saying that the 1911's pose a greater risk of AD/ND when unloading?

What is the proper method of lowering the hammer/unloading a 1911 after being at C&L?

Thanks :)

1) Drop the magazine
2) Disengage the thumb safety
3) Rack the slide & lock back
4) Examine the chamber
5) With the magazine out, release the slide
6) Hold the hammer between the thumb & fore-finger of the off-hand while pointing the firearem in a safe direction & pulling the trigger. Lower the hammer gently to the stop position (while holding the trigger back).

-or-

1) Eject the magazine
2) rack the slide to eject the round (you may want to visiually check the chamber here) & release the slide
3) point the firearm in a safe direction & pull the trigger

Some folks feel the first process is too time consuming & has unecessary steps. I always thought it felt safer.

[longtooth]

Remove your magazine. Rack the slide & LOOK into an empty barrel.
Return the slide to battery & pull the trigger. I hold the hammer w/ thumb & index finger & let it down. Mag may be reinserted or left out.

[longtooth]

Mithras61,
you sure are fast on the keyboard. Good job.

[Skiprr]

I have a question. Am i correct in saying that the 1911's pose a greater risk of AD/ND when unloading?

I don't think so personally, but our true 1911 gurus will comment.

What is the proper method of lowering the hammer/unloading a 1911 after being at C&L?

I can't think of a reason to actually try to lower the hammer if the gun is loaded. To clear a C&L 1911, you just point the gun in a safe direction (and don't let your finger get near the trigger ), drop the magazine, release the safety, and rack the slide to eject the round that's in the chamber. (Then rack the slide a couple of more times, lock it open, and stick a finger in the chamber to make sure you can't feel a cartridge, either...but that's just me.)

And I wish you many happy thousands of rounds in your new 1911! Because, of course, you really know you want one.

[Skiprr]

Mithras61,
you sure are fast on the keyboard. Good job.

Man. Everybody here is too fast. I'm gonna go quietly back to my slow hunt-and-peck...

[Mithras61]

I may seem fast to y'all, but I work a keyboard for aliving and most of the folks I work with think I'm slow (I write technical training materials)...

It's probably just the fast cable connection to the Internet...

[TX Rancher]

Excellent thread! Im new and considering a Kimber Ultra, love that gun.

I have a question. Am i correct in saying that the 1911's pose a greater risk of AD/ND when unloading?

What is the proper method of lowering the hammer/unloading a 1911 after being at C&L?

Thanks :)

Many have already answered on how to unload a 1911, and personally I agree with all the directions given.

But in respect to the 1911 being more “unsafe� during unloading, I think the answer is both yes and no depending on what weapon you are comparing against.

If you take for instance a Glock, I feel there’s not much difference, both drop the hammer against the firing pin. But the 1911 at least allows me to control the fall of the hammer since I can get to it.

If you compare against a weapon with a decocker such as the 92F’s or the Walther P99 QA, the 1911 is probably in second place.

But I think the thing to remember is the best safety is your brain, not some piece of hardware on your pistol/rifle. I suspect most AD’s are the result of someone pulling the trigger on an “empty� chamber that isn’t really empty. If your mindset is “I don’t pull the trigger until I know the chamber is empty, and then checked again.� you’re good to go. Of course always act as if it’s loaded, and point it in a safe direction…

If your brain “safety� is engaged, you won’t have any problems. If it’s not engaged, all the mechanical safeties on your weapon could prove useless…

As for the Ultra, go for it. I have one and so does my wife…it’s the only thing she will carry.

[longtooth]

You brain safety statement is top shelf. I like it.

dihappy,
You kinda new here so dont know me real well yet. The old hands think I am prejudice toards 1911s in genral & Kimbers in particular. I aint prejudice really, just like 'em cause there the.... well cause there 1911s.
What more can be said.

[eagleeye]

Concerning the knife attacks- if there is a knife in the fight someone is going to bleed. I have been practicing martial arts for many years. I just hope to be able to stop the second or third strike.

I carry a Glock with one in the pipe and a trigger block.

I practice draws pushing it out as it leaves the holster.

Just hope I never have to find out if it works in a presure situation.

Longtooth do you use a trigger block on your Glocks?

[Liberty]

If you take for instance a Glock, I feel there’s not much difference, both drop the hammer against the firing pin. But the 1911 at least allows me to control the fall of the hammer since I can get to it.

If you compare against a weapon with a decocker such as the 92F’s or the Walther P99 QA, the 1911 is probably in second place.

But I think the thing to remember is the best safety is your brain, not some piece of hardware on your pistol/rifle. I suspect most AD’s are the result of someone pulling the trigger on an “empty� chamber that isn’t really empty. If your mindset is “I don’t pull the trigger until I know the chamber is empty, and then checked again.� you’re good to go. Of course always act as if it’s loaded, and point it in a safe direction…

If your brain “safety� is engaged, you won’t have any problems. If it’s not engaged, all the mechanical safeties on your weapon could prove useless…

While I won't conceal carry a handgun without a safety. My P95 a DA/SA lowers the hammer when I put it into safety (Decocks). Awefuly unnerving, even if I just checked the chamber.