Palmer - Speeding

[Oldgringo]

What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

I would describe a "speed trap" . . .

Yep, that's a speed trap. One other characteristic is that locals usually don't get nailed, just like out-of-towners are never given "just a warning".

Posted speed limits have nothing to do with a location being a "speed trap", eh? I get it now, it's all about money.

[talltex]

[Posted speed limits have nothing to do with a location being a "speed trap", eh? I get it now, it's all about money.[/quote]

The posted limits certainly come into play in many cases, because they will often drop the posted limit a large amount suddenly rather than gradually ramping it down as you come into the town. There's a very small town on Hwy. 22, between Hillsboro and Corsicana named Frost, that had NO operating businesses on the highway...just a cotton gin, and an vacant gas station that hasn't been open in years...the rest of the town is residential area to the side of the main highway.
About 10-15 years ago, I was heading to Tyler to swap vehicles with another dealer,(back when speed limit was still 55mph) and a half mile out of town my radar detector went off (this is flat, blackland cotton fields). I could see the police car sitting under the canopy of the old gas station long before I got into city limits and slowed down to 50mph as I went past him. He pulled out and flipped on the lights and I really thought it was because there was no license plate on the bumper or Inspection/registration stickers on windshield, because I was running a dealer plate. I had the window down, hands on wheel and license in my hand as he walked up and I said something to the effect "guess you couldn't see the dealer tag in the window until you got up close, huh?" He said "Uhh, no sir...actually I stopped you for speeding." (young, very polite guy). I looked at him and said "I wasn't speeding officer...I saw you way before I got into town and I slowed down to 50." He looked kinda' sheepish and said I'm sorry , but the speed limit in the downtown area is 30mph". I couldn't help myself, and looked back at the area where had been parked, and said "hmmm...guess I didn't see the speed limit sign...and sure didn't realize I was in the downtown area...where was it exactly" (said this in a joking friendly manner with a smile on my face). He replied, "you'd really have to be looking for it, it's 2 blocks from the old gin to the gas station." I nodded at him and said "I see...well, I guess you HAVE to right the ticket don't you?" He said "yes sir, I do, sorry...I appreciate you being nice about it." After I signed it he told me "I want to let you know they are running radar today in Kerens and Malakoff up the road too, so be sure you're not going over 30 through either one of them because they are hitting it hard today." I told him thanks for the info...sure enough they both had cars stopped when I went through going and coming back.

[The Annoyed Man]

What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

It's a place where they trap people who are violating the speed limits. I can't say for sure if they skin 'em and eat 'em after they trap 'em. I've never been trapped. Cruise control is a beautiful thing. Plus, I just look so sweet and innocent that nobody wants to give me a ticket anyway.

[fishman]

What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

It's a place where they trap people who are violating the speed limits. I can't say for sure if they skin 'em and eat 'em after they trap 'em. I've never been trapped. Cruise control is a beautiful thing. Plus, I just look so sweet and innocent that nobody wants to give me a ticket anyway.

Just what speed do you set your cruise control on? Exactly the speed limit, just over, or just under???

[Oldgringo]

What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

It's a place where they trap people who are violating the speed limits. I can't say for sure if they skin 'em and eat 'em after they trap 'em. I've never been trapped. Cruise control is a beautiful thing. Plus, I just look so sweet and innocent that nobody wants to give me a ticket anyway.

Just what speed do you set your cruise control on? Exactly the speed limit, just over, or just under???

We set our cruise control on whatever speed we want to travel consonant with road, traffic and weather conditions. That setting is usually <65 on the Interstate - when we are forced to travel on the Interstate. Otherwise, we try to stay out of everybody's way and enjoy the scenery.

[fishman]

Thats what I do, just take it slow and easy. I don't get in to much of a hurry anymore.

[Mel]

In my "retirement job", I represent the Federal Gubberment. In other words; I'm supposed to be late.
No need to hurry. Last speeding ticket was in 1964, last day of college.

[srothstein]

What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

The legal definition on entrapment does not match what most people think of as a speed trap. Most people think of strict enforcement of posted limits as a speed trap. The legal definition, and these do exist but are much more rare than people think, is when the police entice a suspect into committing a criminal act that he did not have the predisposition to commit.

So, in the eyes of the law, a speed trap exists when the person is speeding and has no way to obey the law. An example of this is when a city posts a new speed limit that is significantly lower than the prior limit on that road, and there is no warning sign of the limit change. If they write the ticket for someone as soon as they enter the new speed zone, that would be entrapment. Another example might be not clearly posting the speed limit at all and then enforcing it as if it was posted.

But as I said, those are very rare now and most people use the term speed trap for any place that strictly enforces the speed laws.

[talltex]

What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

But as I said, those are very rare now and most people use the term speed trap for any place that strictly enforces the speed laws.

I agree that "strict enforcement" comprises the majority of the definition, but would also add that the volume of tickets written on a per capita basis, along with the amount of revenue generated, plays a big part in the perception of most people of it being a "speed trap". The state does track the volume and dollar amounts of traffic violations by town...and some of the figures will amaze you. The leader in the revenue per capita category goes to Westlake...with over $18,000 in fine revenue per resident. Thats over 10 times the average property tax per Texas household. The second place is a town with only 156 residents that generates almost $15,000 per person...you can lower the property tax and utility bills pretty easily with that amount of additional revenue. The other factor in the revenue equation is the amount of the fines...the Texas Administrative Code provides guidelines, but the municipalities can pretty much do what they want. The state recommends that a school zone violation have an additonal penalty from $25.00-50.00 above the regular fine for speeding and they also have guidelines for speeding on non school zone violations such as for 5 to 10 miles over posted limit $50-75 plus court costs....with fines increasing as violation goes farther over limit. The example I posted from Texline was a base fine of $185.00 for 1 to 10 mph over posted limit, plus $200.00 add on for school zone. I can't imagine anyone thinking that a $385.00 fine for driving 29mph on a 4 lane road, with no traffic and during a time period when all the children are in school, is not excessive, and designed more as a revenue enhancement then a safety measure.

[Oldgringo]

What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

But as I said, those are very rare now and most people use the term speed trap for any place that strictly enforces the speed laws.

I agree that "strict enforcement" comprises the majority of the definition, but would also add that the volume of tickets written on a per capita basis, along with the amount of revenue generated, plays a big part in the perception of most people of it being a "speed trap". The state does track the volume and dollar amounts of traffic violations by town...and some of the figures will amaze you. The leader in the revenue per capita category goes to Westlake...with over $18,000 in fine revenue per resident. Thats over 10 times the average property tax per Texas household. The second place is a town with only 156 residents that generates almost $15,000 per person...you can lower the property tax and utility bills pretty easily with that amount of additional revenue. The other factor in the revenue equation is the amount of the fines...the Texas Administrative Code provides guidelines, but the municipalities can pretty much do what they want. The state recommends that a school zone violation have an additonal penalty from $25.00-50.00 above the regular fine for speeding and they also have guidelines for speeding on non school zone violations such as for 5 to 10 miles over posted limit $50-75 plus court costs....with fines increasing as violation goes farther over limit. The example I posted from Texline was a base fine of $185.00 for 1 to 10 mph over posted limit, plus $200.00 add on for school zone. I can't imagine anyone thinking that a $385.00 fine for driving 29mph on a 4 lane road, with no traffic and during a time period when all the children are in school, is not excessive, and designed more as a revenue enhancement then a safety measure.

I'm surprised that none have mentioned tiny (this current speed trap thread) Estelline out on 287 towards Amarillo. I suspect that its source of revenue is speeding tickets because there is absolutely nothing there and there seems to be a speed cop at both ends of town whenever we pass through.

That said and lessons learned, abide by the posted speed limits in these burgs, big and small, regardless of time of day or week, and there shouldn't be major problems...maybe.

[talltex]

What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

I'm surprised that none have mentioned tiny (this current speed trap thread) Estelline out on 287 towards Amarillo. I suspect that its source of revenue is speeding tickets because there is absolutely nothing there and there seems to be a speed cop at both ends of town whenever we pass through.

That said and lessons learned, abide by the posted speed limits in these burgs, big and small, regardless of time of day or week, and there shouldn't be major problems...maybe.

Estelline IS one of the top ranked towns in revenue per capita according to state statistics...

[Jumping Frog]

The state does track the volume and dollar amounts of traffic violations by town...

Interesting. Do you know where I could find that? Link?

[Pawpaw]

The state does track the volume and dollar amounts of traffic violations by town...

Interesting. Do you know where I could find that? Link?

I can't help you with the info, but I know talltex speaks the truth.

Several years ago, the city of Lavon got to be so bad about writing "revenue tickets" that the state withdrew their ability to even have a police force. They had to contract with nearby cities.

They have their police force back now and traffic enforcement seems to be very even-handed.

[gigag04]

You put the LEO in a really bad spot. He showed a great deal of courage and calmness in letting you get your license. It would have been just as easy to cuff you and sit you on the curb, or in the back of his cruiser. You also handled it well (no pun intended). I would have been soiling myself if I dropped my license like that!

You worry too much maybe?

[Mel]

The state does track the volume and dollar amounts of traffic violations by town...

Interesting. Do you know where I could find that? Link?

Several years ago, the city of Lavon got to be so bad about writing "revenue tickets" that the state withdrew their ability to even have a police force. They had to contract with nearby cities.

There's a trucking company in Lavon that has a sign over their desk that says,
"Live life on the edge. Drive through Lavon at 51 mph!"