Bushmaster in Wally World

[smyrna]

I recently noticed that a local Walmart has started selling Bushmaster AR 15s in an M4 configuration for $897. This is the first time I've seen a "black rifle" in a Wally World though I understand there are other stores that have started carrying them as well. I was in the store today during lunch and was curious as to how many they had sold, so I struck up a conversation with the sporting goods guy. The conversation went something like this:

ME: (gazing at the guns in the carousel) Hey, I noticed you guys started carrying these Bushmasters...you selling a lot of them?

HIM: (frowns) Well I sure hope not...

ME: Oh? Why do you say that?

HIM: Well, the .223 is not a good round. It's anemic and not really good for anything. It's really designed to be a varmint round at best. You can't kill a deer with it. It'd take several rounds to put down a deer. And, nobody needs a 30 round magazine.

ME: (with slight disbelief and mild expression of disgust) Hmmmfp! Really? (turns away and starts looking at ammo in another display case)

HIM: (comes around the counter and tries to re engage in conversation) Well, the guys that come in here and buy these are just trying to be a badboy (edited to comply with 10 yr old daughter rule). Yeah, they come in here and want to buy these and a bunch of 30 round magazines and just want to go shoot stuff. Like I said, nobody needs a 30 round magazine or one of these rifles. Well, you can't even hunt with a 30 round magazine, why there's limits on magazine capacity while hunting deer. And, like I said, it'd take several shots to put a deer down.

ME: (thinking to myself...Really? Gee, that doe I shot quartering toward me at 80 yards with a 55 grain core lokt must have gotten hit by a defective round cause she took a dirt nap without taking a single step...went in just in front of the left shoulder and disintegrated and bloodshot the opposite shoulder with nothing but jelly in between. And, I must have missed that part about magazine capacity in the TXPWD Outdoor Annual while hunting game animals other than migratory birds.)

HIM: (continues while I give him a blank stare and then walk away) Yeah, what they need is a .308 not a wimpy .223 in some assault rifle trying to be a badboy. (edited) Why for $897 you could buy two .308s and a scope and a ....blah, blah, blah, blah...

Good Lord! Why did I even try to engage this doofus in conversation?
I was just somewhat excited to see an AR in Walmart.

[Chemist45]

Sad.
Just sad.
And he's the "Expert"others will quote.

[ajwakeboarder]

some people just don't get it.

[Liberty]

His arguments sound a lot like .45 911 enthusiasts.

"No one needs 15 rounds."
"$800 dollars for a 911 I can buy two Taurus or Rugers"
"Its Illegal to have more than 10 rounds to carry in some places."

That guy is just a Wally World employee, I would no more expect unbiased knowledge about AR15s than I would expext knowledge about their TVs.

A .223 AR15 wouldn't be my first choice if I was looking for a deer rifle, but then again it wouldn't be my choice to take into combat either. We all have our prejudices.

[Jumping Frog]

That guy is just a Wally World employee, I would no more expect unbiased knowledge about AR15s than I would expext knowledge about their TVs.

He sounds like he'd fit right in as a salesperson at far too many gun stores . . . .

[Cosmo 9]

I'd be willing to bet his second job is at the mall being a most excellent ninja.

[Carry-a-Kimber]

People are funny about what caliber is and is not effective against "fill in the blank". When I was looking for a rifle I could use on elk I got a bunch of "gotta use a 30 caliber....has to be an ultra mag, gotta use a 180gr +...blah blah blah"
I have since killed 2 bull elk with a 270 short mag loaded with 140gr bullets, both were at 200 yards. Some people try to make up for marksmanship with firepower.

[Munk]

He could just as easily be the guy stocking the shelves with bath towels... The tire guys are the only people there somewhat specialized.

[The Annoyed Man]

He's a sales clerk at a big box store. His opinion, plus $2.95, will get you a cup of coffee. I really only get into these kinds of discussions with people who actually show some intelligent curiosity about the topic.

I had a friend at church give me the old "what do you need an AR15 to go hunting for?" business. he said that nobody needs that much power to shoot a deer. He's a good guy and he's not a hunter, so I gently led him through the comparison of the .223 to the .270 or .30-'06 in power. "Well then, why do you need a 30 round 'clip' for hunting?" I said, "you don't need 30 rounds to hunt a deer. You're car has a 20 gallon gas tank, doesn't it? You don't burn 20 gallons of gas every time you leave the house, do you? I'm not going to shoot the deer 30 times. It only takes one shot. The rifle comes with a 30 round magazine, just like your car comes with a 20 gallon tank......because the rifle can also be used for other things besides deer hunting......just like you might leave the house one day and drive to Austin instead of Fort Worth, and that 20 gallon tank needs to be filled." He still doesn't like guns, but at least he understands the arguments about 30 round magazines and how the .223 round is not some kind of King Kong powerhouse.

You just can't change some people's minds. They hold onto their cherished notions because it is intellectually easier. If you change your mind on guns, it kind of forces you to change the way you thought about a lot of other things. Believe me. I know. I was an antigun zealot until my dad died and I inherited his old WW2 1911. I didn't want to get rid of it because it was a keepsake from his life, and I honored his WW2 service. So since I was going to have this thing in my house, I asked some knowledgeable friends to take me to a range and teach me how to shoot it, field strip it, and clean it. It was while talking with them that they introduced me to the whats whys and wherefore's of the 2nd Amendment. That's what got me to looking at the rest of the Constitution.

But in order to experience such a profound paradigm shift, I had to let go of some cherished notions that I had held onto my entire life until then. It was not an easy thing to do, and I continue to evolve. The problem with people who hate guns is that they shy away from evolution because it can be a scary thing. 6 years after my dad's death in 1990, I voted as a Republican for the first time. The democrat party has lost me, probably forever. The republican party is "this" close to losing me. My outlook on life is completely different these days—all because I decided to get educated about one single inherited pistol.

Some times, taking an "anti" to the range is the best thing you can do for them. They'll either retreat to their entrenched positions, or they will evolve. The timid or intellectually lazy will retreat. The courageous and intellectually honest will evolve.

But don't take anybody who makes jokes about fragging you at the range. That's not even close to funny. Someone like that really isn't mature enough for the responsibility inherent in handling a firearm.

[smyrna]

I pretty much agree with all the comments above, but what annoyed me by the whole encounter was the fact that I never asked his opinion on ANYTHING...not an AR15, not deer hunting, not the effectiveness of the .223 round nor was I trying to influence HIS opinion on anything.

I merely asked if they had sold many Bushmasters, and the question went right over this doofus' head and he used the opportunity to spew off about stuff he knew nothing about. I was so annoyed, I started to just counter by saying, "Well in that case, let me have one and a box of .223."

[jeeperbryan]

I suspect he's old school like my grandfather and not keen on black guns. My grandpa doesnt understand the concept of target shooting. When he goes to a shooting range its for a competiton or to zero a gun. Plus I bet the guy has more punks coming to the gun counter to check out the "machine gun" rather than normal shooters like us. I have to agree with him about hunting deer with a 30 round 223 though. Completely overkill capacity and insufficient round for ethically shooting deer IMHO.

[HankB]

A .223 wouldn't be my first choice to hunt deer, but if it's all that I had available, I'd use it without too much worry - after all, people have been using bows and arrows to hunt deer for thousands of years, and if what amounts to a pointy stick works, I see no reason why a .223 wouldn't.

As for the salesman . . . some know what they're doing, some clearly don't. I've run into both types at Wally Mart and, for that matter, other sporting goods stores and even local gun shops.

[The Annoyed Man]

I suspect he's old school like my grandfather and not keen on black guns. My grandpa doesnt understand the concept of target shooting. When he goes to a shooting range its for a competiton or to zero a gun. Plus I bet the guy has more punks coming to the gun counter to check out the "machine gun" rather than normal shooters like us. I have to agree with him about hunting deer with a 30 round 223 though. Completely overkill capacity and insufficient round for ethically shooting deer IMHO.

I have a friend who has taken most of his deer with an AR15. I was there for one of them–a shot to the back of the head from 92 yards out. The bullet exited between her eyes. The doe dropped right where she stood and never took another step, DRT. He has shown me the autopsy pictures he took after using a 65 grain Sierra Gameking at about 3000 fps. The bullet hit right behind the shoulder, blew out the buck's heart and exited the off side. Range to target was just under 200 yards. The buck took about 10 steps and keeled over.

I too would rather hunt deer with a .30 caliber round, but I don't think that using a .223 is unethical in and of itself. It becomes unethical when used by an unwise shooter in circumstances which are stacked against the success of the cartridge. One of my old shooting buddies grew up during the depression in rural Pennsylvania. He took all of his deer back then with a .22LR. But he was a real good hunter.

[Liberty]

Does anyone really hunt deer with a 30 rnd Mag? I suppose if it was all one had, but Mags aren't that expencive and 30 rounders would be a little awkward.
k

[The Marshal]

Yeah, I was in Wally World last night in Rockwall.
I walked up to the counter, was looking at some ammo, and noticed the SIG M400 and Bushmaster XS15.
I asked the guy "Wow, you have some Black Rifles! When did you start selling those?"
He responds "You mean the assault rifles?"