For The First Time Ever...

Photoman · #16

Braden wrote: Just to clarify, I did NOT draw the gun, but I did slip my hand in my pocket and grip it. My instincts were telling me something was up and I trust my instincts.

Next time use your option to leave immediately. You can buy more fuel elsewhere.

9mmGuy · #17

austin wrote:If this had occurred to me, when he turned away, I would have turned drawn, then left my hand with the pistol behind my leg. If he had chose poorly and come towards me, I could have pulled the pistol forward but left it down to show him the pistol without having to get a sight picture and possibly alarming anyone else.

Bad idea!! IMO. Would if the clerk saw you from inside and called the police saying there is a man in the parking lot with a gun. The cop didnt see the whole thing a might get you with failure to conceal. Bad news man. There are a thousand other things that could of been going on. I think he acted very well. Stayed alert and left! The others said it right, you are headed down the wrong road in regards to carrying a firearm.

stevie_d_64 · #18

Alertness: Excellent

Reaction: Excellent

Result: Everyone goes home breathing...Regardless of the intent of the person that approached you...You were alert and prepared to react accordingly, if need be...If they looked screwy at you on their way out, that sounds like a personal problem for them...Blow that off and stay vigilant...

Adjustments: None that I would see you needing to make...

ih8h8ers · #19

He may have been waiting to take your ride. Waited for you to hang up the pump. Then he would probably not so nicely remove your vehicle from you. His buddy would follow and they would both be gone in a few seconds.(I am familiar with this part of town & as you stated...I-35 is right there)

kauboy · #20

I too think he was sizing you up. He turned to his buddy and waited for the signal that you were no longer paying attention and wouldn't be expecting an attack. Moving the can was a little weird, but he may have had a brain fart and decided to do anything to make you think he wasn't just a weird guy and make you call the cops, which you should have done anyways. Its their job to investigate suspicious activity of any kind. If you've ever listened to a police scanner, you'd know how much non-violent stuff they have to deal with.
Anyways, by keeping your eyes on them and your alert level high, you never gave them the chance. Good work!

On a side note, did you think through the decision about dousing a man with diesel who was actively smoking? I personally don't know how combustible that fuel is in the open, but you wouldn't want a dirty haired hippie weirdo running wildly around a gas station while ablaze.

dihappy · #21

Nice job :)

If i remember correctly, we had to put a torch to a pan of diesel for quite some time to get it to flame up. It isnt like gasoline.

Austin,
I hope you learn quick, youll get a good flaming round here with talk about "drawing" your weapon to scare people off.

And worse, you may one day end up arrested and lose your license.

austin · #22

Braden was there, lets look at his words:

"Just to clarify, I did NOT draw the gun, but I did slip my hand in my pocket and grip it. My instincts were telling me something was up and I trust my instincts."

Thats pretty clear.

Texas use of force law clearly allows somone to use the threat of force such as displaying a weapon to prevent or stop the use of force to cause bodily harm to self and others.

Pre-drawing the weapon, but keeping it concealed in the crook of your arm or behind your leg, circumstances permitting, is still concealed. A DPS Trooper, Collin County Sheriff's deputy, and a Gunsite Rangemaster each told me about this.

Given what Braden described, I would have gone to a drawn, but concealed status when the man turned his back thus hiding his hands.

Given my probable location between the car and pumps with no one else around and wearing my heavy leather jacket and in an OWB configuration, this is easily done.

Concealed is concealed and there is nothing in the Law that says the weapon has to be OWB or IWB or anwhere else - just as long as the casual observer cannot see it.

Had the man lunged at me or turned with a weapon, I would have then retreated behind the vehicle or turned and displayed the weapon, telling him to back off. I would have then still been totally within the letter and spirit of the law.

Had he done what he did, I would have reholstered. No harm done. No law broken.

For the record, I am 41, former US Army Sergeant, worked on fishing boats in Alaska, worked in East LA, delivered pizza in LA while in college, former foster parent, former head guide, and run a large ranch. In my fun-filled life, have been shot at, shot, beaten by a gang, robbed, apprehended violent criminals, and been run over by one ton beasts. I will match my life resume against anyone's. I am not a pimply faced kid who has read a few books.

I did not get a CHL to brag to my friends or to feel special, but to defend myself and my loved ones. I hate violence and its the last resort. I hope I never have to use my pistol, but I am determined that if it happens, that I will prevail and that my quality of survival will be high. I know first hand what it feels like to be powerless and totally vulnerable and what its like to be stalked.

If its late a night, a truck parks in an overwatch position, the passenger gets out, walks up to me, stops 20 feet away, turns - thus hiding his hands, I WILL have my pistol in my hand, preferably drawn but concealed.

I seriously doubt that it was a drug drop or a deal given the witnesses - Braden, store clerk, and probable security cameras. The last thing a dealer wants is PC developed off a suspicious call that makes a deputy a hero and lands the man behind bars for the third and final time.

Sure, there are non-lethal ways to deal with things. But that was a tough situation given the second guy in the running vehicle.

Maybe Braden should have invited both guys over to Waffle House after filling up.

Then again, maybe not.

austin · #23

If you have not read this book, go get it and read it.

Here is the first part of it.

http://www.enotalone.com/article/4555.html

jbirds1210 · #24

austin wrote: I hate violence and its the last resort.

The thought that hits me first is that a gun should not be our first option. IMO we do not have the right to take our weapon from the holster when things appear a bit strange. If that were the case in Houston, I would have to walk around with a gun in my hand!

I was not at the gas station with Braden, but I did not read anything that OC could not have solved immediately. If less than lethal stuff is not effective....go to the gun. Having more than one tool in the bag is mandatory IMHO. I also hate violence, but that is exactly what would have happened if someone pulled a gun on me when they were mistaking my intentions.

Bravo for being aware of the situation and I am glad that everyone left in one piece.

Paladin · #25

I can think of a few options in this situation:

-Using a verbal challenge
-Raising your free arm/hand to chest level...to better block a potential attack
-Palm some OC

As a side note... the guy was smoking at the gas pump

What an idiot.

Braden · #26

kauboy wrote: On a side note, did you think through the decision about dousing a man with diesel who was actively smoking? I personally don't know how combustible that fuel is in the open, but you wouldn't want a dirty haired hippie weirdo running wildly around a gas station while ablaze.

What I was thinking was that a shot of diesel in his face would slow him down long enough for me to create some space and draw my gun...or better yet, convince him that it just isn't worth it. The fact that he had a cigarette didn't factor into that one way or the other.

However, it takes more than a cigarette to light diesel fuel. If anything it would have put his cigarette out.

Braden · #27

austin wrote:If you have not read this book, go get it and read it.

Here is the first part of it.

http://www.enotalone.com/article/4555.html

The Gift of Fear...GREAT book.

I have it and have read it. Need to read it again. I think DeBecker is anti-gun, but a great book nonetheless. I recommend that everyone read it AND get their wives to read it.

For what it's worth, I appreciate everyone's feedback (including Austin's).

9mmGuy · #28

Braden wrote:However, it takes more than a cigarette to light diesel fuel. If anything it would have put his cigarette out.

It also takes more than a cigarette to ignite gasoline. i have seen cigarettes dipped in gas before and do nothing but put them out. but if the cigarette were to spark some how thats a different story.

kw5kw · #29

austin wrote: Texas use of force law clearly allows somone to use the threat of force such as displaying a weapon to prevent or stop the use of force to cause bodily harm to self and others.

Pre-drawing the weapon, but keeping it concealed in the crook of your arm or behind your leg, circumstances permitting, is still concealed. A DPS Trooper, Collin County Sheriff's deputy, and a Gunsite Rangemaster each told me about this.

I was going to ask if you were taught this at Gunsite, I made an enhancement to your quote to make sure that circumstances permitting stood out..

Situational awareness and being able to be in control. I too have palmed a weapon before, but never have I had to produce one and most certainly I've never had to use one.

It's the awareness, level Orange to Red that keeps us safe. It's the 21 foot rule that proves that a man with a knife can kill you before you can draw your uncovered, OWB weapon, and that circle just expands when your weapon is concealed.

And, like all have said in many, many threads and over and over again... Concealed is concealed no matter how it's concealed, be it in a bag, under the seat, under a newspaper while laying on your car seat or in the folds of that very same newspaper that is carried under your arm while walking down the sidewalk. It can be inside your underwear or simply under your shirt on a lanyard, even a jacket pocket can conceal just as good as an IWB holster and you can have the option to palm the weapon in case of dangerous situations.

I applaud Braden and Austin both, for their situational awareness. I wonder about some others who want to have a gun for personal protection and refuse to leave the house without it, but refuse to even touch the handle if when the threat level is undeniable. Thank God that Braden was aware enough to thwart this attack before it began.

Russ

HankB · #30

Instances like this - you notice something is wrong, but you haven't actually been attacked yet - are just about made for pocket carry.

Once your hand is in your pocket, actually grasping your gun, you're no more than 1/2 second away from BANG once you decide you have to shoot - that's pretty good.

But if you DON'T have to shoot, nobody sees anything but a guy standing there with his hand in his pocket, which is completely unremarkable. If (as will usually be the case) nothing happens, you just go about your business, with nobody the wiser.

That's why I like my 340SC.

(Pocketable guns may sacrifice some firepower over full size pistols, but in many instances, where discretion and a low profile are called for, they're just the ticket.)