What to do if attacked by a hostile military force in Texas?

[tsteven1]

I'd make peace with Jesus, hope to take one or more with me/us, and depend on warned Texans to begin seeking agressors. Would this apply to islams too?

Investigator-- If you know what the survivalists are talking about, why do you need to read their boards? Are you being prurient by seeking to place your virtue above theirs?

[stevie_d_64]

Stevie d 64:
Look at what is happening right now on our very borders. If the National Guard of Arizona is not engaging an armed force, who is going to? We need to begin thinking about these types of issues, as I am of the opinion that what I just wrote about may occur. Thank You
John R. Fuller

The good thing about this is that is Arizona...This is Texas...I believe after what happened there got the other states to correct any deficiencies in their policies or ROE...

I also believe Arizona has quietly re-vamped their engagement policies as well...But you're not going to hear much about that in the mainstream media...

I believe that the threat you are describing is based more upon criminal exploitation and intent, rather than a concerted state sponsored campaign...Of course the state where they originate from is turning a blind eye to the issue, and will probably not do much to assist us in getting it under control...

I believe unless it comes within the bubble you put aroud you, there is not much we can do about it but be ready to react in a reasonable fashion to the threat if it ever crosses our path...

I believe you have valid concerns, and that the solutions, unfortunately, are going to have to be made by people way above our paygrades...

[G.C.Montgomery]

Some how, the situations depicted in the original post seem highly unlikely. But the law is pretty clear on what you can and can't do to defend yourself.

I don't expect to see the Mexican Army on US59 anytime soon. But lets just say for the sake of argument that Rita had hit Houston square on the jaw as a CAT 5 hurricane. Not likely, but lets say it had and some of the local gangbangers had decided to block my exit. My truck weighs 6300lbs with me and a full tank of gas. It will hit 60mph in about eight seconds. Doing the math, my truck at 30mph will do far more damage in five seconds than I can do with my FAL, chambered 7.62NATO in two minutes. I'm thinking I'll chance running the roadblock, making hood ornaments out of the idiots and dragging survivors for as far as the truck will roll.
In the second scenario; Again, I doubt the Mexican Army will raid my home in my life time. And again, Texas law pretty clearly defines what I can and can't do. Assuming everyone was dumb enough to come after me through the same bullet funnel, I'd run out of 7.62mm ammunition about the same time the average army regiment would run out of bodies. Some how I don't think an armed force would be that inept at attacking my little old house. I've seen video of MS13 raiding a house...it's messy, bound to be bloody, and involves boxes and boxes of bullets. You will be at a serious disadvantage when ten or twelve guys all suddenly stick semi-auto weapons into every window of your home and randomly start blasting in sweeping arcs through the house.

Edited to add: Again, I don't walk around planning for these sorts of scenarios. I think the chances of running into either situation is a billion to one and really not practical or reasonable for most armed citizens to train or plan against

[txinvestigator]

Investigator-- If you know what the survivalists are talking about, why do you need to read their boards? Are you being prurient by seeking to place your virtue above theirs?

I have no idea what that means.

I read AR 15 dot com because it is the internet source for information on the ar15. There is also a Texas forum, and I participate in many discussions there regarding CHL, training and general Texas issues.

If your attempt is to antagonize or insult me, you have failed.

I think the militia types and survivalist are a joke, though.

[HankB]

If elements of the Mexican army ambushed you, you'd be in a world of hurt. Take the first carjacking scenario - if you can't back up, that means you're blocked in - it's a coordinated strike. If they're military, they won't have "only" handguns - they'll have rifles, probably with full auto capability. That vehicle you're riding in will provide about as much cover as tissue paper.

If it's gangbangers, you may as well fight anyway - your CAR is a weapon - because they won't be leaving witnesses. But it's a very bad situation no matter how you look at it.

A "home under siege" scenario is a little bit better, but a coordinated military strike . . . that's a big problem. If you're out in the sticks and have any warning at all, you'd be better off to withdraw, maybe do some sniping from cover. (one shot - move - one shot - move - etc.)

[stevie_d_64]

...Doing the math...

Edited to add: Again, I don't walk around planning for these sorts of scenarios. I think the chances of running into either situation is a billion to one and really not practical or reasonable for most armed citizens to train or plan against

G.C.,

I feel very confident in the way I figure the participants in the forum do the math...I agree with you the likely hood is slim to none in these cases...

But I do believe the outcome based education "results" we get here help...

I believe most would agree...

[Mithras61]

More important: What are the rules of engagement that you are subject to when attacked by a foreign martial force ie... Mexican Drug Gang, or worse Mexican troops on our own soil.

The reason that I am asking this is that there seems to be a reluctance to engage armed and violent forces crossing our borders by the military and the border patrol for legal reasons.

I am wondering if I would be prosecuted if I defended my home from an illegal attack with whatever means I may possess at the time. I am starting to wonder if I would be jailed for defending my family my self and my property from violent invaders if they happen to legally reside south of the border of the United States. I am going to post this on a few other forums to see if anyone knows a good answer to this question.

I have two specific scenarios;

1. You are in a vehicle that is stopped at a road block set up by armed personnel. It is blatantly obvious that they are not U.S. military or law enforcement. The conditions are it is night, rural, and you are now unable to back up and evade, the individuals at the road block are approaching your vehicles with weapons pointed at you and your family in the car. Your weapons are limited to CHL pistols and revolvers, I will allow that many may also have a shotgun or rifle in their vehicle as well.

What do you do? What are you allowed to do legally?

2. You are in your residence and the same type of armed group is attacking your house. The conditions are; You are in possession of many types of center fire magazine fed rifles along with shotguns and pistols that many on this board maintain at home.

What do you do? What are you allowed to do legally?

Remember, these two situations are illegal actions being taken against you and your family. Immediate action is necessary to protect life limb and possibly livelyhood. This is also assuming you are not one that engages in illegal activity such as illegal drug or weapons traffickers.

In response to 1., I would pull my Ma Deuce out of my back pocket & blaze away!

In response to 2., the automatically tracking GE electric miniguns would waste 'em in no time flat, so it wouldn't be a real problem...

But seriously, I agree with the other posters who said run 'em down with your vehicle for 1. It only makes sense to use what you have, & a car/truck/van/suv is a bigger and more controlled weapon in that environment. As to what if they were assaulting my house, unless I had a hardened room that was fully defensible, I would be slipping out the back way & calling for backup from the police or anyone else I could think of as soon as I noticed said force. I'm sure that you could do more than that legally, but it's foolish to try and defend against a numerically superior and better armed force all by your lonesome.

Of course, by the time they got to the north side of Houston, I suspect that other superior forces (TX ANG, USMC, US Army, USAF, etc. ) would long since have been involved, and would have probably rejected any services a fat old man like myself could offer and suggested I vacate the area.

[Paladin]

I've seen video of MS13 raiding a house...it's messy, bound to be bloody, and involves boxes and boxes of bullets. You will be at a serious disadvantage when ten or twelve guys all suddenly stick semi-auto weapons into every window of your home and randomly start blasting in sweeping arcs through the house.

Now that's something I'd like to see (video only). A bunch of MS13 gangbangers in a circle, doing mag dumps with semi-auto rifles at eachother (thru the house).

Just duck and shoot the ones left standing as they reload.

[G.C.Montgomery]

I've seen video of MS13 raiding a house...it's messy, bound to be bloody, and involves boxes and boxes of bullets. You will be at a serious disadvantage when ten or twelve guys all suddenly stick semi-auto weapons into every window of your home and randomly start blasting in sweeping arcs through the house.

Now that's something I'd like to see (video only). A bunch of MS13 gangbangers in a circle, doing mag dumps with semi-auto rifles at eachother (thru the house).

Just duck and shoot the ones left standing as they reload.

Actually, that was the shocking part...something like 300+ rounds expended and not ONE fatality or injury. The MS13 crew was attempting to jump some narcs who'd setup a buy/bust against the gang. The narcs were on the outside looking in with the video cameras and swooped in to make the arrests while the knuckleheads were reloading. Fortunately, a few resisted and were DRT.

[Will938]

In situation one, your best hope is to drift, everywhere. No only will they be amazed by your skills, but you could take all of them out in one swoop. You need to start being more like me. I never let off the gas...ever.

In the second one, you wait in the attic until they reload. Then attack with some sort of death from above move. From there, when it happens, you'll know what to do.

I've thought about the possibility of the mexican military attacking southern texas, while its a pretty rediculous possibility, if I took off for brownsville in my truck doing the speed limit...by the time I got there they'd of likely been slaughtered by citizens, USAF, TXANG, local NG. And if they wern't, III Corps out of Fort Hood wouldn't be far behind.

[kw5kw]

If such make it all the way from Mexico to the DFW area, then we're really in deep........

I'd much rather place my bets upon the USA, Marines, National Guard and all of the other national, state and local branches of law enforcement to stop such an encroachment.

If not, then I've got a couple of spare boxes of ammo lying around somewhere that I might just put to work.

Russ