texas open carry

[74novaman]

I don't know why I insist upon trying to sell air conditioners to " Eskimos"- I really don't.

Perhaps it's because I lived with them dang "Eskimos" for 45 years , and I still regularly "travel" within their "Republic", and it saddens me that they are so content with having to trade their right for a privilege.

If anyone wanted an example of OC supporters degrading and insulting the CHL crowd, here it is.

I'd say most of us here would like constitutional carry, open or concealed, no permit. We understand we shouldn't have to pay the state for a permit to carry. It is frustrating.

But, there is reality, and there is candyland.

To act like we don't understand that our RIGHTS are being infringed upon is an insult. What do you propose we do, just ignore the laws?

TSRA, and many members of this board have worked hard to take Texas from a state with NO carrying of handguns before 1995 to a state with pretty good gun laws regarding carry (not perfect, but not awful).

Working together towards better gun laws is of course what we should be doing.

But when people continue to act like we're stupid for accepting the reality of our situation, which is this:

Texans from the late 1800s until 1995 were stripped of their rights.

....it becomes incredibly frustrating. No, we're not happy with the current state of affairs.

But thanks for calling us stupid for working to restore our rights. Do you propose we do anything different that our proven strategy of legislative success? Our gun laws have been steadily loosened since 1995, BECAUSE of the TSRA and the work of Mr. Cotton and others.

But by all means, continue to be snarky about selling rights for privileges. When you're ready to work with us towards campus carry, open carry, and constitutional carry, let me know your suggestions.

Telling us how awful it is that our ancestors didn't fight back against this stuff 100 years ago doesn't help our situation today.

/rant off.

[G.A. Heath]

I forgot to add in my above post that I am not against OC, I am however gonna wait for conditions to be right. here's what has to be done in order to get my support:
1: CHL law has to be as untouched as possible.
2: No specific sign requirement for OC prohibition.
3: No attacks on other progun groups or orgs to further the bill
4: Well written bill with minimal changes to penal code.

Here's what would be nice to see in the bill:
1: Unlicensed OC and CC (Leaving CHL intact for reciprocity)
2: TSRA/NRA support
3: education campaign for the public.

[PATHFINDER]

Hey Guys & gals - y'all keep on hiding those handguns under your golf shirts while folks in the rest of the states enjoy freedom. I am going to politely excuse myself from this "tizzy" before my head explodes .

Charles, you are abosolutely right , my good man. My arguments don't have a leg to stand on - in a Texas courtroom - YET.

[74novaman]

Hey Guys & gals - y'all keep on hiding those handguns under your golf shirts while folks in the rest of the states enjoy freedom. I am going to politely excuse myself from this "tizzy" before my head explodes .

Charles, you are abosolutely right , my good man. My arguments don't have a leg to stand on - in a Texas courtroom - YET.

I'd say I'm surprised that you're not interested in offering any actual strategies for fixing the "problems" with Texas carry...but I'm not.

Just another person who wants to crow about how anti gun we are in Texas because of no OC.

To TexasRedneck, its exactly this sort of behavior that makes me doubt we can "get along" and work towards mutual goals regarding less gun laws.

Thanks for all your suggestions on improving the situation pathfinder and.....

Well...bye.

[Keith B]

Hey Guys & gals - y'all keep on hiding those handguns under your golf shirts while folks in the rest of the states enjoy freedom. I am going to politely excuse myself from this "tizzy" before my head explodes .

Charles, you are abosolutely right , my good man. My arguments don't have a leg to stand on - in a Texas courtroom - YET.

What about the fact that your state bans open carry in Denver? And how about those states that allow an exception to the firearms preemption for open carry so municipalities can ban it at will? It isn't all roses for the other states either. There are restrictions in many. And several don't allow open carry either.

So, either live with it or try to go about getting it changed the right way, but don't come on the forum just for the sake of trying to rub everyone's nose in the fact you now live in a location you can open carry.

[PATHFINDER]

Hey - 74Novaman :

I personally like "Eskimos". They are a freedom loving people who are also being oppressed by their State government, and frankly - they really don't have a need for freezers.

So... be happy - OK ! Try not to be so sensitive - OK..

My goodness - gracious - if you don' t think that you have a need for a freezer - then by all means -don't buy one.

[74novaman]

Hey - 74Novaman :

I personally like "Eskimos". They are a freedom loving people who are also being oppressed by their State government, and frankly - they really don't have a need for freezers.

So... be happy - OK ! Try not to be so sensitive - OK..

My goodness - gracious - if you don' t think that you have a need for a freezer - then by all means -don't buy one.

Sir, please don't back down now from your statement! We both know you were NOT talking of Eskimos.

I don't know why I insist upon trying to sell air conditioners to " Eskimos"- I really don't.

Perhaps it's because I lived with them dang "Eskimos" for 45 years , and I still regularly "travel" within their "Republic", and it saddens me that they are so willing to exchange their constitutionally declared right for a grant of privilege from the high powers of State government.

I put the important part of what you said into bold and large text to help you out.

[sugar land dave]

I'm sorry; I must have grown a little dense.

To what advantage is it to occasionally come in mass onto this chl forum and, intentionally or not, to cultivate discord with those of us who follow the existing law as closely as we can to how it is actually written, to fail to have a discourse with those Pro CHL leaders who have helped achieve restoration of some of our rights per good laws for the chl community, and to be unwilling to negotiate reasonable points of view with us to help us understand how we might better help you without selling out the gains we have made.

I don't think there is any frequent visitor on this forum who will not banter back and forth to try to understand a point. We sometimes bicker like family, but we usually return to the dinner table to break bread.

There seems to be some bad blood from prior encounters, but I think if everyone could get past that and civilly debate what would be needed to gain organizational support from actual groups with lawmaking and lobby experience, then all might find a way to prosper together. I do think you will have to answer Charles questions to have any favorable chances to make headway on your goals via this forum.

Best of wishes for you;
I know you wish us the same.

[mamabearCali]

A house divided against itself will not stand. We need to all be on each others sides. Those places where OC is feasible should pursue it, where it is not, baby steps my friends. The Infingment of our rights did not happen overnight, the restoration will take time too. We must be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

[Oldgringo]

[TexasRedneck]

Y'know guys....this is why I don't stop by very often. I try to propose and present in a logical fashion (to me, anyways), and BOTH sides seem eager to "stick it" to the other.

We don't need enemies...we supply our own.<sigh>

[Jumping Frog]

Well, knew this would start circling the drain sooner or later. IBTL.

[fishfree]

Is there any organized effort/organization active to get a vote & passage in the next legislative session ?

... and 5 pages later if there was an answer there it got buried in the static. I presume the answer is that there is not an organized effort (at least not well known as such) for OC.

My parting comment, for your consideration, is this:

In my college days I took a history course. It was supposedly about Western Civilization but the professor had a bent about institutions (like governments) and how they perpetuated themselves against popular will. One singular aspect that has stayed with me all these decades is this. To control the unwashed masses, divide them. That simple. Grant special privileges to some and tell them they are special, deserving and above the rest. That they must protect their special status. And that is all it takes.

We all want our rights, including gun rights. But look back at these past 4 pages of posts. How much heat? How much light in these arguments among citizens with a common interest? Now ask yourself this- How hard was the CHL test? How difficult was the shooting practical? Do those 2 tests plus not being a felon make you an extraordinary rare and special citizen deserving of a very special privilege? A privilege as opposed to a right?



thanks

[74novaman]

Fishfree, I understand what you're saying.

But understanding its a right that is being denied.....how do you propose we fix it?

As far as I can tell, our best path towards constitutional carry seems to be whats been working. A loosening of gun laws every legislative session. It is not ideal that we're forced to send money to the state, take a test, etc to exercise our right to carry LEGALLY.....but it is the reality of our situation.

In all the back and forth, I have heard lots about how we need to get along, but not a lot of ideas on how to proceed.

My thinking is this: We had the whole "bear" part of the right to keep and bear arms taken from us for over 100 years. If we keep getting a little bit back at a time, is that not better than nothing? I don't mind slowly working towards a goal, knowing maybe my grandkids won't have to deal with the same mess that I did.

Complaining about making rights into privileges doesn't do squat for ourselves or our progeny with regards to our right to keep and bear arms.

Ideas do. I'd love to hear some....

[fishfree]

Fishfree, I understand what you're saying.

But understanding its a right that is being denied.....how do you propose we fix it? ....

I'll argue that history tells us that appeasement and half-measures will never win the day. That is the strategy used to limit and control.

I am ignorant of the minutia of political processes at the local and state level and that is why I posted. I wanted to hear of existing organized efforts putting pressure on the political machinery.

In broadest of terms I know this little bit:

1) stop fighting among ourselves
2) withhold our money and our votes from politicians from village to state level who will not pledge support for our 2A rights in full (remove regulation of wearing)
3) make it known we will give our money and our votes to the opponent of sitting politicians who do not support our 2A rights (no excuses accepted!)- even if we have to hold our collective noses to do so
4) organize into a large and worrisome voting constituency with one troublesome voice

This last one is key. And here I am lacking in the knowledge to get this done effectively. But I do not think we can hope for #4 without first accomplishing #1.

thank you for the time and effort to read and post; if a moderator sees this I'll suggest it is time to lock it in hopes that instead of more internal conflict a new thread will start limited to how one gets a political lobbying organization up and running or in finding an existing organization we can work with.

Again, thanks