17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[sugar land dave]

She has suspicions, yes, but her last statements on a person having to prove they are not guilty hurt her position in my opinion. I hope we are still innocent until proven guilty in this country.

[Beiruty]

also, she never saw the shooting incident. Just the aftermath. Her statement is of limited use.

[Hoosier Daddy]

To be accurate Mr. Zimmerman called Sanford Police Department non emergency line, not 911. Maybe just a technicality, but if he considered this a threat to himself or the neighborhood worthy of police intervention

I read there were a lot of burglaries in the neighborhood recently. He called the PD when he saw someone suspicious who didn't live in the community. If he was already talking to someone at the PD when things went sideways, it wouldn't make sense to hang up on them to call 911.

There are so many things wrong with this story. If all the facts ever come out, I won't be surprised if neither of them ends up smelling like roses.

[Hoosier Daddy]

ITMT, how did a Latino end up with the surname Zimmerman?

I heard that a few Germans might have moved to Mexico 65-70 years ago but I don't think that's his story.

Maybe he's related to the guy who sent that telegram.

[Jusster]

She has suspicions, yes, but her last statements on a person having to prove they are not guilty hurt her position in my opinion. I hope we are still innocent until proven guilty in this country.

Yeah I raised my eyebrow to that as well. The “he could have shot him in the leg if it was self defense” thing was out there too.

But if it’s true the fight started away from her house but he was shot in her yard….that’s interesting. The way he was standing over the body (that was face down) after the shooting is interesting as well especially if she was out the door immediately (a couple of seconds) after the shooting. The Police not taking statements from witnesses immediately afterwards is disturbing. And she swears she heard the kid screaming, then a shot, then nothing. I wished they would have asked her what either one of them where wearing though. In Zimmerman’s call he described the suspicious black guy as wearing a grey hoody not a white t-shirt that some witnesses are saying they saw on top during the fight…right before the shots. Of course he could have lost the hoody in the fight, but I would have asked that question first.

also, she never saw the shooting incident. Just the aftermath. Her statement is of limited use.

Still I wouldn’t want anyone saying anything even remotely like that if I were claiming self defense……he better be looking for a good lawyer



Jusster

[puma guy]

Just saw this about the 13 year old witness. Take it for what it;s worth at this point.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/1 ... ostpopular

[Jusster]

Just saw this about the 13 year old witness. Take it for what it;s worth at this point.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/1 ... ostpopular

Hmm interesting. The one thing I did get out of it is that Zimmerman was the guy in the white t-shirt that witnesses accounts state he was on top. I believe I heard that in one of the 911 calls as well. Hard to claim self defense if you have your adversary pinned to the ground. Especially if you out weight them by 100lbs.


Jusster

[Beiruty]

There accounts of fight took place over 2 blocks. Any accounts that shooter tried to retreat or disengage and the younger person persisted and pursed the shooter to where the shooting happened?

From 911 tapes, the young guy, "came to check the shooter out" is this initiating the contact?

[Jusster]

There accounts of fight took place over 2 blocks. Any accounts that shooter tried to retreat or disengage and the younger person persisted and pursed the shooter to where the shooting happened?

From 911 tapes, the young guy, "came to check the shooter out" is this initiating the contact?

You working late nights this week too? just kidding.

There are no accounts of the shooter trying to retreat or disengage, but one could argue the teen did when he ran away. Yes the shooter said he came to check him out, but this is also coming from the guy who called him suspicious in the first place though he had committed no crime. I could see the kid wanting to know who was following him. Got close enough to get a peak and then ran off as the shooter said he did. . I didn’t hear Zimmerman say he just threatened me, threw a rock at my truck, saw a gun tucked in his pants, or even made a funny face at him. He just claimed he looked like he was on drugs and was acting strange. Which is now being said by some reports that Zimmerman himself sounded intoxicated.

After I finished listening to the Zimmerman call there was another clip you could listen to of other very similar calls he has made in the past. He reported Black males often based on the fact that his home was broken into and they fit the description his wife (if I remember correctly) had reported. I'd be willing to bet that was the turning point when he assigned himself neighborhood watch captain. Self appointed they now say.

One good thing I noticed is there isn’t much talk about him being a CHL holder though……hopefully it stays that way. Interestingly enough the only place I’ve read about the concealed carry issue has been at http://www.foxnews.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Under the new law, there is no duty to retreat and it gives a Floridian the right "to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force," if he feels threatened.
"Prosecutors can have a hard time making a case if there is no one else around to contradict a person who claims self-defense," said David Hill, a criminal defense attorney in Orlando.
So far, Sanford police have said there is no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claims.
"If there is nobody around and you pull a gun, you just say, `Hey, I reasonably believed I was under imminent attack. Hey, sorry. Too bad. But you can't prosecute me,"' Hill said, somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
Gun control advocates said the case is emblematic of permissive gun laws in Florida, which was among the first states to allow residents to carry concealed weapons. Florida was the first state to pass a "Stand Your Ground" law, which has been dubbed a "Shoot First" law by gun control advocates.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03 ... z1peFi8FuU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jusster

[Oldgringo]

The Feds have taken an interest in it. They'll sort the wheat from the chaff for sure.

[Jumping Frog]

The Feds have taken an interest in it. They'll sort the wheat from the chaff for sure.

Yeah, or under Holder's version of civil rights under the "Justice" Department, they walk in with the railroad line already laid out . . .

[philip964]

Made Headline News this morning with Robin Mead. She is really pretty.

I guess this story has legs here and in the media.

[OldCannon]

The Feds have taken an interest in it. They'll sort the wheat from the chaff for sure.

...regardless of the truth, and regardless of whether it's a federal matter. This entire incident has escalated into a national circus now.

The real shame is that everything I've seen/heard indicates that Zimmerman completely removed the mantle of innocence by initiating an aggressive confrontation. Worse still is if this doesn't' result in a manslaughter charge, because it would _seem_ to imply that Florida law allows you to start a fight and end it with deadly force, all while claiming self-defense.

[57Coastie]

...it would _seem_ to imply that Florida law allows you to start a fight and end it with deadly force, all while claiming self-defense.

As shocking as this may appear to us, it may be true, OldCannon.

We must not forget that this is Florida, not Texas. Everything we were taught by our CHL instructors and that we have ingrained into our systems does not necessarily apply in Florida. The disparities of different judge's takes on self-defense law in Florida as enacted makes it very difficult to predict the outcome, so many an LEO just refers the case to the prosecutor as soon as he hears the expression, and leaves it to the lawyers and judges to sort out. The LEO can easily find himself in a no-win situation.

I understand that there is a move in Florida to have an issue of self-defense at trial decided by the judge, and disposed of before the trial begins before the jury. The interpretation of the law on self-defense in Florida is that difficult. The constitutionality of this approach is subject to question, but it may make sense if it passes muster.

The portion of your post, OldCannon, which I quoted, makes a lot of sense to us here in Texas, and most likely throughout most of the country, but we must remember the old legal maxim, "The law does not always make sense."

Jim

[OldCannon]

...it would _seem_ to imply that Florida law allows you to start a fight and end it with deadly force, all while claiming self-defense.

As shocking as this may appear to us, it may be true, OldCannon.

We must not forget that this is Florida, not Texas.

Jim

Yup. Here's a Slate article on it (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... uted_.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - fair warning: It's Slate, so expect liberal bias).

Regarding federal involvement, there seems to be an increasing preponderance of evidence that the shooter had a racial bias, and this appears to be playing well with the federal authorities. I'm guessing now that it's a race to see who arrests Zimmerman first, the sheriff or the US Marshals, all that's remaining is for a prosecutor to say, "I have sufficient evidence to charge him."

Guilty or not, Mr. ZImmerman can be certain that he, and (sadly) his family, will be subjected to a life of misery.