17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[speedsix]

...technology in voice identification may be able to prove who was screaming on the 911 tape...at least who wasn't...

[puma guy]

If the girl is telling the truth why didn't she come forward a month ago? If she is telling the truth, why didn't she call her boyfriend's mama when she heard what she said she heard? Even the next day to see if he was OK when he didn't return her calls as a concerned girlfriend?

Very strange timing. Exactly when the case against GZ is falling apart, she suddnly remembers a phone conversation from a month ago.

I guess it could have happened like she says.

According to an article in the Miami Herald the lawyer for Martin's Family combed his cell phone records and found the girl.The lawyer guaranteed to keep the girl's identity protected and will only turn his interview over to the feds, not Sanford PD. Martin's phone records indicate he was on the phone with her while Zimmerman was talking to Sanford PD. Is it reasonable to expect a 16 year to take that kind of initiative, who can say why she would or wouldn't, especially if her parents were concerned with her getting involved?

As for his cleared charges in the assualt case the article reports Zimmerman was in a scuffle with an undercover PD. He entered a pre-trial diversion program to get his record cleared. I am not justice system wise so I don't know if that's the same as charges dropped. Another tidbit in the same article; Zimmerman is the son of a VA Supreme Court Magistrate and a court records clerk and has had made more than his share of questionable reports to police. Sanford PD still contends it did their best to investigate.
Read article here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/20/2 ... ayvon.html

[speedsix]

...if there's justice to be had, the Feds will have to see that it gets done...the locals haven't and won't...stinks of a cover-up before we find out who his dad is...now it really stinks...

[puma guy]

...technology in voice identification may be able to prove who was screaming on the 911 tape...at least who wasn't...

Good point. I have a feeling this case will garner every investigatative method and technological tool available before it's over.

[speedsix]

...it's either going to get settled in the courts...or in the streets...400,000 on a petition to have Z arrested...we're workin' up to a warm summer, if folks feel that justice is being withheld...

[Jusster]

I just listened to the 911 call and the kid was clearly yelling, "help!" in a high pitched tone. Zimmerman is too big and old to emit such a high pitched whine. Only a skinny 17 yr old would yell for help like that.

Yes, because all adult males have deep voices, children have high pitched voices, and women have girly voices, right?



The amount of people willing to convinct this guy when even the cops haven't found enough evidence to warrant an arrest is amazing to me.

That was a joke right?


Jusster

[74novaman]

I just listened to the 911 call and the kid was clearly yelling, "help!" in a high pitched tone. Zimmerman is too big and old to emit such a high pitched whine. Only a skinny 17 yr old would yell for help like that.

Yes, because all adult males have deep voices, children have high pitched voices, and women have girly voices, right?



The amount of people willing to convinct this guy when even the cops haven't found enough evidence to warrant an arrest is amazing to me.

That was a joke right?


Jusster

Have they arrested him?

[Jusster]

Have they arrested him?

I guess you haven’t been really keeping up with this case. There are many allegations of Police misconduct and failure to thoroughly investigate this shooting. That is exactly why the Fed’s have swept in to oversee the whole thing and it is now been brought to the GJ. To say he hasn’t been arrested yet by a police department that is now under investigation itself....tell me…..why hasn’t he been arrested yet?

[57Coastie]

I've heard an interesting legal theory by someone who has some legal training (but is not a practicing lawyer far as I know). This person says there is more than enough probable cause to arrest Zimmerman and charge him with assault under Florida law because by following (and assumably confronting) Martin, Zimmerman put Martin in reasonable fear of imminent danger and this constitutes assault. All of this argument is based on what happened BEFORE shot was fired or any assumed punches/whatnot were thrown....

With respect for both you and your "person with some legal training," A-R, his conclusion is quite debatable, when one looks at Florida law along with the facts as we know them. Any time you get a legal opinion which uses the word "assumably" [sic] it is a hypothetical and should be immediately distrusted, particularly when this person is apparently not fully qualified and practicing the legal trade in the state which he presumes to advise you about.

As a practical matter, or a political matter, if you will, can you imagine what could happen if the DA charged Zimmerman with simple assault or stalking, rather than murder? Watts will have moved to Florida. I imagine the DA was very happy that the Feds jumped in, notwithstanding that there may be even more difficulty for the Feds to charge and prove up murder, and the Feds may not enjoy the heat they are going to get.

I must, after following this thread on and on, repeat an earlier statement, although it appears doubtful that the legal experts all over this forum paid any attention the first time.

It is credibly argued by many who really know the ins and outs of Florida law, that self defense can save even an original aggressor if it turns out that the initial victim, while defending himself from an assault, caused the aggressor to fear for his life. It is credibly argued that to raise the issue a defendant need only say "I was in fear for my life," regardless of what happened before. Once again, this is not Texas.

Jim

[74novaman]

[quote="74novaman]Have they arrested him?

I guess you haven’t been really keeping up with this case. There are many allegations of Police misconduct and failure to thoroughly investigate this shooting. That is exactly why the Fed’s have swept in to oversee the whole thing and it is now been brought to the GJ. To say he hasn’t been arrested yet by a police department that is now under investigation itself....tell me…..why hasn’t he been arrested yet?[/quote][/quote][/quote]

You're right, I haven't been. Like most iffy self defense cases, I figured the facts in this one were going to take a while to sort out and it was going to be nothing to speculation for a while.

Interesting that the PD is under investigation too. We honestly won't know one way or the other everything that happened until something this messy goes to trial, I bet.

And a counter question: So if the public is out there screaming for his arrest because they think it was a racially motivated killing, and the Holder Justice Dept (you know, the one that dismissed the voter intimidation case against billy club carrying uniformed Black Panters, and the one that probably had a hand in Fast and Furious) arrests him, will it be because they have evidence against him or because they're pandering to a voting block?

[Jusster]

[quote="74novaman]Have they arrested him?

I guess you haven’t been really keeping up with this case. There are many allegations of Police misconduct and failure to thoroughly investigate this shooting. That is exactly why the Fed’s have swept in to oversee the whole thing and it is now been brought to the GJ. To say he hasn’t been arrested yet by a police department that is now under investigation itself....tell me…..why hasn’t he been arrested yet?

[/quote][/quote]

You're right, I haven't been. Like most iffy self defense cases, I figured the facts in this one were going to take a while to sort out and it was going to be nothing to speculation for a while.

Interesting that the PD is under investigation too. We honestly won't know one way or the other everything that happened until something this messy goes to trial, I bet.

And a counter question: So if the public is out there screaming for his arrest because they think it was a racially motivated killing, and the Holder Justice Dept (you know, the one that dismissed the voter intimidation case against billy club carrying uniformed Black Panters, and the one that probably had a hand in Fast and Furious) arrests him, will it be because they have evidence against him or because they're pandering to a voting block?[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

I don’t believe the Fed’s will arrest him unless Florida fails to act. Their involvement in this case has forced a local GJ to hear this case, even though local LEO tries to hold on to their claim that they just didn’t have enough evidence. I think that’s great. I think Florida should be forced to clean up their own mess.

The downside, Florida may cause a disruption of what a lot of law abiding citizens have been working hard to obtain, fair gun laws for true self defense purposes.


Jusster

[i8godzilla]

It was pointed out to me something that can be heard on the call Zimmerman made to the PD. I listened a number of times and it sounds like he 'whispered' a slur in this call. I am not saying he is a racist, just that he loses some of his creditability when I hear it.

On the first recording posted here at about ~2:19:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03 ... -explained" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Warning: If you hear what I believe I heard then it may be offensive to you.

[A-R]

I've heard an interesting legal theory by someone who has some legal training (but is not a practicing lawyer far as I know). This person says there is more than enough probable cause to arrest Zimmerman and charge him with assault under Florida law because by following (and assumably confronting) Martin, Zimmerman put Martin in reasonable fear of imminent danger and this constitutes assault. All of this argument is based on what happened BEFORE shot was fired or any assumed punches/whatnot were thrown....

With respect for both you and your "person with some legal training," A-R, his conclusion is quite arguable, when one looks at Florida law along with the facts as we know them. Any time you get a legal opinion which uses the word "assumably" [sic] it is a hypothetical and should be immediately distrusted, particularly when this person is apparently not fully qualified and practicing the legal trade in the state which he presumes to advise you about.

To be fair I inserted the "assumably" because I have personally heard no verification whether Zimmerman confronted Martin or the other way around (only that the two "met" at some point after Zimmerman had followed Martin. But I understand your point and agree this person's legal opinions are just that - opinions. My intention was to throw it out there and let y'all chew on it a while.

[Heartland Patriot]

It was pointed out to me something that can be heard on the call Zimmerman made to the PD. I listened a number of times and it sounds like he 'whispered' a slur in this call. I am not saying he is a racist, just that he loses some of his creditability when I hear it.

On the first recording posted here at about ~2:19:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03 ... -explained" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Warning: If you hear what I believe I heard then it may be offensive to you.

Did you really link to MOTHERJONES? Nothing personal, but I don't trust ANYTHING from that website, considering how much they HATE our ability under the law to defend ourselves. Their intense leftist bias makes everything they print suspect to me, sorry. They are the sort of folks that would like us to be the way the Brits are: defenseless.

[i8godzilla]

It was pointed out to me something that can be heard on the call Zimmerman made to the PD. I listened a number of times and it sounds like he 'whispered' a slur in this call. I am not saying he is a racist, just that he loses some of his creditability when I hear it.

On the first recording posted here at about ~2:19:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03 ... -explained" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Warning: If you hear what I believe I heard then it may be offensive to you.

Did you really link to MOTHERJONES? Nothing personal, but I don't trust ANYTHING from that website, considering how much they HATE our ability under the law to defend ourselves. Their intense leftist bias makes everything they print suspect to me, sorry. They are the sort of folks that would like us to be the way the Brits are: defenseless.

I just linked to a site that had the recording. Are you saying that MOTHERJONES has altered the call recording? I have also heard the same from other places that had the recording posted. Maybe it is a conspiracy.... Did you listen to the recording or just make a comment because of the source?