17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[WildBill]

Another tidbit in the same article; Zimmerman is the son of a VA Supreme Court Magistrate and a court records clerk ...

That is an interesting tidbit of information.

[philip964]

NPR featured it again on the evening news. Now they are saying the Justice Department is investigating it as a hate crime.

They reported that the tapes contain a racial slur.

This is not starting to look real good for the shooter. They also played the part where the 911 operator said not to follow the person.

That was good advice.

[WildBill]

NPR featured it again on the evening news. Now they are saying the Justice Department is investigating it as a hate crime.

They reported that the tapes contain a racial slur.

This is not starting to look real good for the shooter. They also played the part where the 911 operator said not to follow the person.

That was good advice.

I hate "hate crimes".

[A-R]

They also played the part where the 911 operator said not to follow the person.

The 911 Operator actually tells Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that (follow him)".

This may seem like nitpicking, but every little deviation from the absolute truth gets magnified in a case like this so thought I'd point it out. And this is an important distinction, at least as far as the ignorant and quick-to-judge public is concerned, even though we all (should) know that 911 operators/dispatchers are NOT necessarily sworn law enforcement officers and have no authority to tell someone NOT to step outside.

That said, staying in his vehicle was GOOD ADVICE that Zimmerman should have heeded. But it had no force of law and is really irrelevant for the most part.

[smoothoperator]

The 911 Operator actually tells Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that (follow him)".

Correct. The people pretending he violated a lawful order from a cop are seriously confused or intentionally lying to advance their agenda.

That said, staying in his vehicle was GOOD ADVICE that Zimmerman should have heeded. But it had no force of law and is really irrelevant for the most part.

Same as Joe Horn, as I think somebody already said.

[WildBill]

The 911 Operator actually tells Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that (follow him)".

Correct. The people pretending he violated a lawful order from a cop are seriously confused or intentionally lying to advance their agenda.

That said, staying in his vehicle was GOOD ADVICE that Zimmerman should have heeded. But it had no force of law and is really irrelevant for the most part.

Same as Joe Horn, as I think somebody already said.

I don't think that Mr. Zimmerman will be as "lucky" as Joe Horn.

[puma guy]

They also played the part where the 911 operator said not to follow the person.

The 911 Operator actually tells Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that (follow him)".

This may seem like nitpicking, but every little deviation from the absolute truth gets magnified in a case like this so thought I'd point it out. And this is an important distinction, at least as far as the ignorant and quick-to-judge public is concerned, even though we all (should) know that 911 operators/dispatchers are NOT necessarily sworn law enforcement officers and have no authority to tell someone NOT to step outside.

That said, staying in his vehicle was GOOD ADVICE that Zimmerman should have heeded. But it had no force of law and is really irrelevant for the most part.

I agree 911 dispatcher directions are suggestions, but Mr. Zimmerman called the Sanford PD not 911. Whether it was a police officer or a civilian dispatcher speaking to him isn't noted anywhere I've found so it's unknown if there was any police authority or not.

[Jusster]

I've heard an interesting legal theory by someone who has some legal training (but is not a practicing lawyer far as I know). This person says there is more than enough probable cause to arrest Zimmerman and charge him with assault under Florida law because by following (and assumably confronting) Martin, Zimmerman put Martin in reasonable fear of imminent danger and this constitutes assault. All of this argument is based on what happened BEFORE shot was fired or any assumed punches/whatnot were thrown....

With respect for both you and your "person with some legal training," A-R, his conclusion is quite debatable, when one looks at Florida law along with the facts as we know them. Any time you get a legal opinion which uses the word "assumably" [sic] it is a hypothetical and should be immediately distrusted, particularly when this person is apparently not fully qualified and practicing the legal trade in the state which he presumes to advise you about.

As a practical matter, or a political matter, if you will, can you imagine what could happen if the DA charged Zimmerman with simple assault or stalking, rather than murder? Watts will have moved to Florida. I imagine the DA was very happy that the Feds jumped in, notwithstanding that there may be even more difficulty for the Feds to charge and prove up murder, and the Feds may not enjoy the heat they are going to get.

I must, after following this thread on and on, repeat an earlier statement, although it appears doubtful that the legal experts all over this forum paid any attention the first time.

It is credibly argued by many who really know the ins and outs of Florida law, that self defense can save even an original aggressor if it turns out that the initial victim, while defending himself from an assault, caused the aggressor to fear for his life. It is credibly argued that to raise the issue a defendant need only say "I was in fear for my life," regardless of what happened before. Once again, this is not Texas.

Jim

Can you provide some links showing how it was credibly argued? Not trying to disagree as I to have heard something similar to what you’re saying. But in those cases the person claiming self defense was not the aggressor. They may have shot for questionable reasons, but not the original aggressor. Like I've said before IANAL, and my comprehension of any law is just my opinion. That includes our laws here in Texas. That being said when I read the Stand Your Ground law Florida has adopted...The first sentence says a lot. Based on what you’re saying, if I'm being assaulted as a law abiding citizen and to defend myself I pull my weapon. My attacker who is now in fear of his life can now claim self defense if he happens to get the upper hand and get a well placed shot off before I can? I'd really like to read that arguement.

776.013(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Jusster

[Heartland Patriot]

It was pointed out to me something that can be heard on the call Zimmerman made to the PD. I listened a number of times and it sounds like he 'whispered' a slur in this call. I am not saying he is a racist, just that he loses some of his creditability when I hear it.

On the first recording posted here at about ~2:19:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03 ... -explained" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Warning: If you hear what I believe I heard then it may be offensive to you.

Did you really link to MOTHERJONES? Nothing personal, but I don't trust ANYTHING from that website, considering how much they HATE our ability under the law to defend ourselves. Their intense leftist bias makes everything they print suspect to me, sorry. They are the sort of folks that would like us to be the way the Brits are: defenseless.

I just linked to a site that had the recording. Are you saying that MOTHERJONES has altered the call recording? I have also heard the same from other places that had the recording posted. Maybe it is a conspiracy.... Did you listen to the recording or just make a comment because of the source?

I'm not saying MOTHERJONES did or did not alter the recording. Its not even about the content of the recording, exactly. Maybe the guy did use a slur; however, it is the SPIN that goes with this that I cannot abide. I merely stated that I distrust anything that comes from that site. I am no fan of the media in general, but those guys make WaPo and NYTimes look like journalistic saints, IMO. BTW, I'm not defending this guy Zimmerman in the least...I think what he did was reckless and foolhardy (following the now deceased teen) at the very least...and possibly much, much worse, considering how it ended. I just despise the media spin and the "Rahm Emmanuel method" that is being applied to this...you know, "never let a crisis go to waste, that is, its an opportunity to do things we think we couldn't do before" (or words to that effect)...such as set back the rights of self-defense of those of us who are NOT reckless and foolhardy like this Zimmerman guy, who is in the minority when it comes to defensive firearms uses, if it is indeed ruled defense in the end. Like I said, nothing personal against you.

[Heartland Patriot]

NPR featured it again on the evening news. Now they are saying the Justice Department is investigating it as a hate crime.

They reported that the tapes contain a racial slur.

This is not starting to look real good for the shooter. They also played the part where the 911 operator said not to follow the person.

That was good advice.

I hate "hate crimes".

It is either a crime, or it is not a crime. It was either self-defense, or it was not. What if it was some guy who just hated teens in general? And he said words to the effect of "blankety blank kids always doing blankety blank...not getting away this time"? Does that make it a "hate" crime? I only say this to point out that it could get more and more ridiculous, and how ridiculous does it get before it STOPS being a "hate" crime?

[smoothoperator]

I guess you haven’t been really keeping up with this case. There are many allegations of Police misconduct and failure to thoroughly investigate this shooting.

There's also allegations that Martin approached Zimmerman and the recorded conversations support that. There's also allegation the mystery girl was "coached" what to say by a lawyer for Martin's family. (Any bets on the odds they'll try to get some money out of this tragedy?)

There's also allegations and very strong evidence Eric Holder is an accessory to the murder of multiple American citizens because he instructed his subordinates to sell guns to criminals.

You might say Eric Holder investigating a shooting is like Hannibal Lecter investigating health code violations at restaurants.

[Oldgringo]

NPR featured it again on the evening news. Now they are saying the Justice Department is investigating it as a hate crime.

They reported that the tapes contain a racial slur.

This is not starting to look real good for the shooter. They also played the part where the 911 operator said not to follow the person.

That was good advice.

I hate "hate crimes".

This honkey also abhors hate crimes! What we need is some love and/or feel good crimes. Crimes that give us a warm and cozy feeling. You know, something along the lines of a, "good wreck" as opposed to a "bad wreck".

[smoothoperator]

I wonder what would've been the outcry if Travon had been a white boy? Just askin'...

It would have been local news, then forgot. The DOJ would not be involved.

[Jusster]

I guess you haven’t been really keeping up with this case. There are many allegations of Police misconduct and failure to thoroughly investigate this shooting.

There's also allegations that Martin approached Zimmerman and the recorded conversations support that. There's also allegation the mystery girl was "coached" what to say by a lawyer for Martin's family. (Any bets on the odds they'll try to get some money out of this tragedy?)

There's also allegations and very strong evidence Eric Holder is an accessory to the murder of multiple American citizens because he instructed his subordinates to sell guns to criminals.

You might say Eric Holder investigating a shooting is like Hannibal Lecter investigating health code violations at restaurants.

Can you provide the link to the recordings that show that Martin approached Zimmerman? Or are you talking about Zimmerman’s own call to SDPD where he states Martin is approaching him and then ran away? Maybe the girl was coached, but if you ask me that would be for the jury to decide and not just simply dismissed. Zimmerman will have his day in court. That you can bet on.

As far as Eric Holder goes, maybe you should start a new thread about that. Sounds like an interesting topic.


Jusster

[smoothoperator]

It's in the recordings on legitimate news sites. I don't know if it's in the Mother Jones recording.