17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[Beiruty]

GZ booking photo: Looks tired and not happy.

[Jusster]

Think they'll broadcast the trial? I didn't give a care about OJ -- but this one I'd watch with interest!

Yes they will. Florida is a "Sunshine" state....meaning they believe in transparency so this case will be televised.

Jusster

[Jusster]

Sorry to hear the innocent do-gooder Mr. Zimmerman will finally have his day in court.

Probably a good thing, as opposed to being crucified by a biased and race-baiting media.

As for do-gooder...

The current American system of neighborhood watches began developing in the late 1960s as a response to the rape and murder of Kitty Genovese in Queens, New York. People became outraged after reports that a dozen witnesses did nothing to save Genovese or to apprehend her killer. Some locals formed groups to watch over their neighborhoods and to look out for any suspicious activity in their areas. Shortly thereafter, the National Sheriffs' Association began a concerted effort in 1972 to revitalize the "watch group" effort nationwide.

You'd doubtless prefer that a "do-gooder" walk by your family if a problem were to occur? You're familiar with the popular Edmund Burke quote, no doubt?

Yes I'm familiar with the quote, but in order for it to apply in this situation one would have to assume that Martin somehow represented evil....though I'm sure many here would classify him as such, but then I'd have to ask based on what? The same flawed thought process that Zimmerman followed when he labeled Martin as suspicious and up to no good.

I understand the concept of neighborhood watch and a applaud all who take the time out to serve their community. BUT I believe Zimmerman stepped over the line and caused the situation that he currently faces.

He's charged with 2nd degree murder, just as I predicted from the beginning.

Jusster

What is Florida's definition of 2nd degree murder? I had thought they would charge him with manslaughter, which I have read is easier to prove than murder. What burden of proof is there with a 2nd degree murder charge? I hear what VMI is saying, and I feel he may be not so far off the mark...but I would still like to know the "legalities" of this one, as it stands under FLORIDA law.

Here you go….I guess she feels she has enough evidence to prove he is guilty of 2nd degree murder. I’m sure they have a lot more detailed information then what we all have been reading on the net.

2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:
(a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),
(b) Arson,
(c) Sexual battery,
(d) Robbery,
(e) Burglary,
(f) Kidnapping,
(g) Escape,
(h) Aggravated child abuse,
(i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,
(j) Aircraft piracy,
(k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,
(l) Carjacking,
(m) Home-invasion robbery,
(n) Aggravated stalking,
(o) Murder of another human being,
(p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or
(q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism,
by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind ... 82.04.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jusster

[Slowplay]

Think they'll broadcast the trial? I didn't give a care about OJ -- but this one I'd watch with interest!

Yes they will. Florida is a "Sunshine" state....meaning they believe in transparency so this case will be televised.

Jusster

Yes, Florida is the sunshine state - apparently you are very pleased with the special prosecutor's actions. Unfortunately, the ultimate facts in this case may not matter a great deal to us in the future, but the garnered political capital for those that want to dismantle 'castle doctrine' or 'stand your ground' laws may matter a great deal.

Chalk another one up for the National Action Network, which even got some love from Eric Holder. He's all about sunshine, shining a light or some similar stuff.

At the opening of NAN’s 14th annual convention in Washington, D.C., the attorney general first thanked MSNBC’s Rev. Sharpton “for your partnership, your friendship, and your tireless efforts to speak out for the voiceless, to stand up for the powerless, and to shine a light on the problems we must solve, and the promises we must fulfill.”

From Drudge linked story - http://cnsnews.com/news/article/eric-ho ... de-trayvon

[Seburiel]

Chalk another one up for the National Action Network, which even got some love from Eric Holder. He's all about sunshine, shining a light or some similar stuff.

I thought he was more into blowin' smoke...

[57Coastie]

The whole buck has been neatly passed to a petit jury, without going through a grand jury. Florida law authorizes referral to trial by information, without going through a grand jury, for even the most infamous felonies when the death penalty is not an option. Florida is not unique in this, but one must wonder what some of "the founding fathers" (whoever they were?) would think about it. Has violence been done to the 5th Amendment, which requires indictment by a grand jury in cases of capital or "other infamous crime"? This case offers the courts, in their infinite wisdom, a chance to take another look at this question. I suppose that, depending on the eyes of the observer, there are crimes more "infamous" than murder 2?

This, of course, makes jury-selection possibly the most interesting, and critical, element of the trial, if there is one, which is certainly not guaranteed at this point. Of course there are lawyers who have said that they make their living talking to 12 people too dumb to get out of jury duty.

While negotiations which could lead to a plea bargain are possible, if not likely, some, but not all, experienced criminal lawyers feel that the State of Florida, through the action of the prosecutor, gave away some of its bargaining leverage by eliminating the death penalty as a possibility facing the defendant. Of course the yapping mouth of Zimmerman, contrary to the advice of his attorneys, may have made up for any leverage the state gave away.

Jim

[sjfcontrol]

Just heard on WBAP that Travon's mother now thinks the shooing of her son....

... wait for it ....

... was "An Accident"!!

[VMI77]

So, they hit him with a non-capital murder charge...then they go for it full-tilt to make it look like they care, but in reality they'll be happy to throw him behind bars for darned near anything to assuage the howling mob, Zimmerman's ACTUAL guilt or innocence beside the point...and, of course, the criminal element behind bars will do the guy in...and Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakhan, et al. will shout to the rooftops how "justice" has been served but in reality it will be out of sheer joy at the power they wield...aided and abetted by the FILTHY MAINSTREAM MEDIA (darned right I hate their guts). It has NOT been about Martin in the least because just about any given day, black teens are killed violently across this nation and you barely hear a peep about it, but it is about the coming elections: shoring up the base, energizing their voters and creating a "crisis" to exploit Rahm Emmanuel-style in an effort to stem the recent slow, but steady return of firearms rights. DISGUSTING! (Well bless my heart, how's that for being "dogmatic"?)

Not just filthy:, TREASONOUS. The MSM are Fifth Columnists.

[recaffeination]

I'll tell youone thing. This has made me reconsider the old advice to be the first to call the cops.

No matter how honest your local cops are, and how decent the elected prosecutor is, it doesn't matter any more. Racist lynch mobs can threaten to riot and you will be denied justice. Politically motivated evildoers will smear you in public and a "special" prosecutor and their kangaroo court can subvert your Constitutional rights for their personal and professional gain.

More and more it sounds better to fade into the night.

[Beiruty]

I'll tell youone thing. This has made me reconsider the old advice to be the first to call the cops.

No matter how honest your local cops are, and how decent the elected prosecutor is, it doesn't matter any more. Racist lynch mobs can threaten to riot and you will be denied justice. Politically motivated evildoers will smear you in public and a "special" prosecutor and their kangaroo court can subvert your Constitutional rights for their personal and professional gain.

More and more it sounds better to fade into the night.

Keep it to yourself. Delete your post.

[Keith B]

I'll tell youone thing. This has made me reconsider the old advice to be the first to call the cops.

No matter how honest your local cops are, and how decent the elected prosecutor is, it doesn't matter any more. Racist lynch mobs can threaten to riot and you will be denied justice. Politically motivated evildoers will smear you in public and a "special" prosecutor and their kangaroo court can subvert your Constitutional rights for their personal and professional gain.

More and more it sounds better to fade into the night.

It is still best to call the cops first if you are in a shooting situation. Fading into the night would only make people think you were trying to hide something when they found you (and they WOULD find you.)

I think the fact that Zimmerman had called ahead of time is what it throwing the monkey wrench into this. He either engaged the guy, then backed away and was attacked (as he said), or he engaged Martin and then was losing the fight and shot him. Hopefully that will all come out clearly out in the trial. Had he not called, then the only evidence they would have had was the eyewitness testimony and his testimony that he was attacked and had to defend himself. It would have been much better. Same thing happened with Joe Horn; he darn near let his mouth on the 911 call cause him to go to jail over a justified shooting. The things that played into Horn's favor were the bad guys were ex-cons and illegals, not some young kid supposedly buying Skittles and a Iced Tea.

Here's the bottom line. Zimmerman made an error (actually more than one, but one big one); he should have never exited his vehicle. Once he had called 911 he should have given a description of Martin, kept an eye on Martin, and if he lost sight of the guy, so be it, then waited for the cops to arrive. If Martin had came to attack him in the vehicle, then he would have been possibly able to redial 911 if he had hung up already, and could have used his vehicle as a method of protection (escape or proof that Martin forced entry.) As it is, his following Martin and confronting him has thrown a gray shadow over who the actual aggressor was in this case and he is paying dearly for it.

So, as many have said, the CHL is not a Batman license; don't go toward a possible problem; and if you do have to defend yourself, don't let your mouth ruin a good shoot.

[OldCannon]

So, as many have said, the CHL is not a Batman license; don't go toward a possible problem; and if you do have to defend yourself, don't let your mouth ruin a good shoot.

As much as the media has offended me in this event, and as much as others have postured-on and amplified the media's lies, THIS will forever stand as an example of what not to do.

I also think this underscores the value of the Texas CHL training. I know folks rail at the costs to take the course, but the course emphasizes de-escalation and appropriate non-lethal defensive approaches. Florida's CCW certification doesn't.

[Heartland Patriot]

I'll tell youone thing. This has made me reconsider the old advice to be the first to call the cops.

No matter how honest your local cops are, and how decent the elected prosecutor is, it doesn't matter any more. Racist lynch mobs can threaten to riot and you will be denied justice. Politically motivated evildoers will smear you in public and a "special" prosecutor and their kangaroo court can subvert your Constitutional rights for their personal and professional gain.

More and more it sounds better to fade into the night.

It is still best to call the cops first if you are in a shooting situation. Fading into the night would only make people think you were trying to hide something when they found you (and they WOULD find you.)

I think the fact that Zimmerman had called ahead of time is what it throwing the monkey wrench into this. He either engaged the guy, then backed away and was attacked (as he said), or he engaged Martin and then was losing the fight and shot him. Hopefully that will all come out clearly out in the trial. Had he not called, then the only evidence they would have had was the eyewitness testimony and his testimony that he was attacked and had to defend himself. It would have been much better. Same thing happened with Joe Horn; he darn near let his mouth on the 911 call cause him to go to jail over a justified shooting. The things that played into Horn's favor were the bad guys were ex-cons and illegals, not some young kid supposedly buying Skittles and a Iced Tea.

Here's the bottom line. Zimmerman made an error (actually more than one, but one big one); he should have never exited his vehicle. Once he had called 911 he should have given a description of Martin, kept an eye on Martin, and if he lost sight of the guy, so be it, then waited for the cops to arrive. If Martin had came to attack him in the vehicle, then he would have been possibly able to redial 911 if he had hung up already, and could have used his vehicle as a method of protection (escape or proof that Martin forced entry.) As it is, his following Martin and confronting him has thrown a gray shadow over who the actual aggressor was in this case and he is paying dearly for it.

So, as many have said, the CHL is not a Batman license; don't go toward a possible problem; and if you do have to defend yourself, don't let your mouth ruin a good shoot.

Well stated.

[mamabearCali]

I'll tell youone thing. This has made me reconsider the old advice to be the first to call the cops.

No matter how honest your local cops are, and how decent the elected prosecutor is, it doesn't matter any more. Racist lynch mobs can threaten to riot and you will be denied justice. Politically motivated evildoers will smear you in public and a "special" prosecutor and their kangaroo court can subvert your Constitutional rights for their personal and professional gain.

More and more it sounds better to fade into the night.

It is still best to call the cops first if you are in a shooting situation. Fading into the night would only make people think you were trying to hide something when they found you (and they WOULD find you.)

I think the fact that Zimmerman had called ahead of time is what it throwing the monkey wrench into this. He either engaged the guy, then backed away and was attacked (as he said), or he engaged Martin and then was losing the fight and shot him. Hopefully that will all come out clearly out in the trial. Had he not called, then the only evidence they would have had was the eyewitness testimony and his testimony that he was attacked and had to defend himself. It would have been much better. Same thing happened with Joe Horn; he darn near let his mouth on the 911 call cause him to go to jail over a justified shooting. The things that played into Horn's favor were the bad guys were ex-cons and illegals, not some young kid supposedly buying Skittles and a Iced Tea.

Here's the bottom line. Zimmerman made an error (actually more than one, but one big one); he should have never exited his vehicle. Once he had called 911 he should have given a description of Martin, kept an eye on Martin, and if he lost sight of the guy, so be it, then waited for the cops to arrive. If Martin had came to attack him in the vehicle, then he would have been possibly able to redial 911 if he had hung up already, and could have used his vehicle as a method of protection (escape or proof that Martin forced entry.) As it is, his following Martin and confronting him has thrown a gray shadow over who the actual aggressor was in this case and he is paying dearly for it.

So, as many have said, the CHL is not a Batman license; don't go toward a possible problem; and if you do have to defend yourself, don't let your mouth ruin a good shoot.

This! The only thing after this that I would say is that if the the stuff hits the fan to give as brief a statement to the police as possible, (he attacked me, I thought I was going to die, so I had to stop him). Then keep your mouth shut until you get an attorney.

[Oldgringo]

I'll tell youone thing. This has made me reconsider the old advice to be the first to call the cops.

No matter how honest your local cops are, and how decent the elected prosecutor is, it doesn't matter any more. Racist lynch mobs can threaten to riot and you will be denied justice. Politically motivated evildoers will smear you in public and a "special" prosecutor and their kangaroo court can subvert your Constitutional rights for their personal and professional gain.

More and more it sounds better to fade into the night.

It is still best to call the cops first if you are in a shooting situation. Fading into the night would only make people think you were trying to hide something when they found you (and they WOULD find you.)

I think the fact that Zimmerman had called ahead of time is what it throwing the monkey wrench into this. He either engaged the guy, then backed away and was attacked (as he said), or he engaged Martin and then was losing the fight and shot him. Hopefully that will all come out clearly out in the trial. Had he not called, then the only evidence they would have had was the eyewitness testimony and his testimony that he was attacked and had to defend himself. It would have been much better. Same thing happened with Joe Horn; he darn near let his mouth on the 911 call cause him to go to jail over a justified shooting. The things that played into Horn's favor were the bad guys were ex-cons and illegals, not some young kid supposedly buying Skittles and a Iced Tea.

Here's the bottom line. Zimmerman made an error (actually more than one, but one big one); he should have never exited his vehicle. Once he had called 911 he should have given a description of Martin, kept an eye on Martin, and if he lost sight of the guy, so be it, then waited for the cops to arrive. If Martin had came to attack him in the vehicle, then he would have been possibly able to redial 911 if he had hung up already, and could have used his vehicle as a method of protection (escape or proof that Martin forced entry.) As it is, his following Martin and confronting him has thrown a gray shadow over who the actual aggressor was in this case and he is paying dearly for it.

So, as many have said, the CHL is not a Batman license; don't go toward a possible problem; and if you do have to defend yourself, don't let your mouth ruin a good shoot.

Well stated.

Me too, I agree.