17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[stroguy]

Nice to see the statute, I appreciate that. I am glad Zimmerman has favorable odds. But as a possible provocateur he still may hold some civil liability. I hope the best for him. He used poor judgement, but acted lawfully, (not a presumption).

I'm not a lawyer for sure, but everyday I have to act under the guidelines of how Tort law is ingrained into my profession. I've had to for 30+ years, so I understand how and where it can be used. So I will take your childish nit pick at my profession with a grain of salt.

Never been accused of having clairvoyance but hey there is a first. Thanks. I would appreciate you don't twist my statements into so called presumptions to benefit a retort from you. Let's play by the same rules.

Have a great and profitable week.

[The Annoyed Man]

O.J. was another case entirely and I can’t understand how one could assume that because he lost, Zimmerman would lose also.

O.J. lost in civil court because in the overwhelming opinion of the public, he was guilty as hades. In Zimmerman's case, it seems to me that regardless of what the media is shouting, at least half of the people I talk to are willing to concede that he was in a fight for his life. Even if they think that he should have stayed in his car, they believe that he had a right to defend himself, including by means of deadly force if necessary........and I'm not talking about just my "gun friends." Even my non-gun-owning liberal brother in California thinks that Zimmerman is probably innocent.

Particularly after the facts of the case come out at criminal trial, if Zimmerman's innocence is demonstrated it will be likely be far more convincing than the proof, such as it was, of O.J.'s innocence—which was really, REALLY skimpy, and driven by a racially motivated jury which could not bring itself to convict a hero of the black community.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... ypage.html

The racial composition of the jury was strongly influenced by the decision of the prosecution to file the Simpson case in downtown Los Angeles rather than--as is usually the case-- in the judicial district where the crime occurred-- in this case, Santa Monica. Had the case been filed in Santa Monica, the Simpson jury would have been mostly white instead of, as was the case, mostly African-American. With poll data showing that most whites believed Simpson to be guilty and most blacks believing him to be not guilty, the decision to file the case in Santa Monica may have been the biggest mistake the prosecution made. Vincent Bugliosi, the celebrated prosecutor in the Charles Manson case, said the mistake "dwarfed anything the defense did."

For better or for worse, this dynamic will likely come into play in jury selection for Zimmerman. If we believe the press ( ), Sanford is a city with racial troubles. I'm not saying that this is as it should be, but if I were Zimmerman's attorney, I would definitely make that an issue during jury selection because there will be no way that he'll get a fair trial with a predominantly black jury. With a charged backed by really thin "evidence," which any competent attorney ought to be able to pick apart, and with good voir dire, Zimmerman is going to be acquitted.

The trial will make obvious the extent of A) the media's deliberate culpability in his persecution, opening them to libel; B) the malicious persecution by attorney Crump, who manufactured evidence out of whole cloth which has now been exposed, and which could lead to his disbarment; C) the politically motivated persecution by Angela Whatshername, the state attorney whose presser was so outrageously unjust that even liberal attorney Alan Dershowitz calls it "irresponsible and unethical" (other commentators are saying that, like Nifong, she'll be ultimately disbarred because of this); and D) possibly even against Treyvon's parents if it comes during or after trial that theirs and Crump's strategy was aimed at setting up a fleecing of an innocent man in civil court.

And the Sanford chief who stepped down is a coward. He should have told them all to go hang themselves and stood by the results of his officers' investigation and defended their integrity. No new "evidence" has been discovered since their investigation....except for the now shown to be false "evidence" of a non-existent girlfriend which Crump made up out of whole cloth. You want more fallout? The mayor of Sanford ought to step down for his shameless involvement in prejudicing the case against an accused man who, unlike thugs who kill during robberies and rapes, is accused of killing someone in a self-defense gone wrong.....even if the believed that to be a flawed defense. Instead, he jumped on the race-card bandwagon and help gin up more hysteria. He's a coward too. Sans a confession of poor judgement at the least, I predict a recall movement after all of this blows over. And don't get me started with Al Sharpton, and Crump, etal. There isn't anything wrong with him that couldn't be fixed with a judicious application of ....... well I'm not going to go there in print.

[Dragonfighter]

<snip> He used poor judgement, but acted lawfully, (not a presumption).

I believe we agree. I would hope if we carry anything away from this, it is the wisdom of staying clear and being a good witness. Especially if the actions of the other party are not an immediate threat to life and property.

I'm not a lawyer for sure, but everyday I have to act under the guidelines of how Tort law is ingrained into my profession. I've had to for 30+ years, so I understand how and where it can be used. So I will take your childish nit pick at my profession with a grain of salt.

Bordering on ad hominem here. It was not a "childish nitpick" but a legitimate question as your statement about tort laws was authoritative and in contrast to what I understood the law to be, which was in the citation that followed.

Never been accused of having clairvoyance but hey there is a first. Thanks. I would appreciate you don't twist my statements into so called presumptions to benefit a retort from you. Let's play by the same rules.

Please clarify how I twisted your statements so I can avoid such errors in the future. The tongue-in-cheek clairvoyance remark was due to the fact you definitively stated I was presuming something that was not only inaccurate but in direct contrast to previous posts related to the GZ/TM situation.

[ScooterSissy]

Zimmermans life is over as he knew it. Not only living with the fact that he took an innocent life, legally in my opinion, he will live with guilt of knowing he could have done it different. He will probably not go to trial for this second-degree murder charge and if he does he will be found innocent with ease. He will also be sued in civil court for wrongful death and will lose miserably. OJ did. He might as well move to Alaska. People go there all the time to escape this world down here.

If Martin assaulted Zimmerman, then wasn't "innocent".
If the courts find it falls under "stand your ground" he's immune from civil suits.
Much of the rest, I agree with.

[OldCannon]

Interesting investigation, if this turns out to be true: Apparently the legal (and PR) team for Trayvon have taken massive steps to manipulate evidence related to Trayvon's phone call to his girlfriend and her behavior leading up to and beyond Trayvon's death.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... se-truths/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RottenApple]

Interesting investigation, if this turns out to be true: Apparently the legal (and PR) team for Trayvon have taken massive steps to manipulate evidence related to Trayvon's phone call to his girlfriend and her behavior leading up to and beyond Trayvon's death.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... se-truths/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it turns out to be true, I think some jail time should be in order for Crump et al along with being disbarred and monetary damages paid out to GZ and his attorney.

[The Annoyed Man]

Interesting investigation, if this turns out to be true: Apparently the legal (and PR) team for Trayvon have taken massive steps to manipulate evidence related to Trayvon's phone call to his girlfriend and her behavior leading up to and beyond Trayvon's death.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... se-truths/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it turns out to be true, I think some jail time should be in order for Crump et al along with being disbarred and monetary damages paid out to GZ and his attorney.

If it comes down to it, Crump will probably be able to convince the girl to perjure herself....at least initially....but in the end, a subpoena of hospital records will be unable to produce evidence that she was seen by any local hospital, and that, plus the twitter feed evidence, will be the evidence that will disbar Crump.

[RottenApple]

If it comes down to it, Crump will probably be able to convince the girl to perjure herself....at least initially....but in the end, a subpoena of hospital records will be unable to produce evidence that she was seen by any local hospital, and that, plus the twitter feed evidence, will be the evidence that will disbar Crump.

I hear you, TAM. And I don't disagree; But to my mind this act (if true) is too heinous for simple disbarment. Railroading an innocent man to jail, placing his life in serious danger, instigating murder-for-hire (the New Black Panthers' bounty on GZ's head), etc. This deserves some serious jail time at the least.

Again, if these allegations are true.

[The Annoyed Man]

If it comes down to it, Crump will probably be able to convince the girl to perjure herself....at least initially....but in the end, a subpoena of hospital records will be unable to produce evidence that she was seen by any local hospital, and that, plus the twitter feed evidence, will be the evidence that will disbar Crump.

I hear you, TAM. And I don't disagree; But to my mind this act (if true) is too heinous for simple disbarment. Railroading an innocent man to jail, placing his life in serious danger, instigating murder-for-hire (the New Black Panthers' bounty on GZ's head), etc. This deserves some serious jail time at the least.

Again, if these allegations are true.

I hear you, but jail time's not good enough. Crump would be the ultimate jailhouse lawyer. Half of his clientele is probably already there, and he'd just make himself as big a nuisance on the inside as on the outside. Actually, I think that a very public humiliation and disbarment, with a very public airing of the facts of his perfidy leading to his disbarment would do as much to shut him up as anything else, while also removing his primary means of income, not to mention a big payout to Zimmerman for all the trouble he caused him. He can't pay Zimmerman from jail. Let him get a real job, where he has to make sure not to tick off his boss too much. A little humility would go a long way to curing what ails him.

[philip964]

http://twitchy.com/2012/04/23/twitter-l ... -kill-him/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zimmerman out on bail, selected tweets from "the public", on what should happen to him.

[RottenApple]

I hear you, but jail time's not good enough. Crump would be the ultimate jailhouse lawyer. Half of his clientele is probably already there, and he'd just make himself as big a nuisance on the inside as on the outside. Actually, I think that a very public humiliation and disbarment, with a very public airing of the facts of his perfidy leading to his disbarment would do as much to shut him up as anything else, while also removing his primary means of income, not to mention a big payout to Zimmerman for all the trouble he caused him. He can't pay Zimmerman from jail. Let him get a real job, where he has to make sure not to tick off his boss too much. A little humility would go a long way to curing what ails him.

Ok. You convinced me. I like the way you think. BTW, remind me not to get on your bad side.... You're devious.

[WildBill]

I hear you, but jail time's not good enough. Crump would be the ultimate jailhouse lawyer. Half of his clientele is probably already there, and he'd just make himself as big a nuisance on the inside as on the outside. Actually, I think that a very public humiliation and disbarment, with a very public airing of the facts of his perfidy leading to his disbarment would do as much to shut him up as anything else, while also removing his primary means of income, not to mention a big payout to Zimmerman for all the trouble he caused him. He can't pay Zimmerman from jail. Let him get a real job, where he has to make sure not to tick off his boss too much. A little humility would go a long way to curing what ails him.

Ok. You convinced me. I like the way you think. BTW, remind me not to get on your bad side.... You're devious.

I wonder what kind of "real job" he would get.

[RottenApple]

I wonder what kind of "real job" he would get.

Bathroom valet at the Blue Oyster Bar.

[MasterOfNone]

I wonder what kind of "real job" he would get.

Bathroom valet at the Blue Oyster Bar.

MSNBC legal consultant