New Mexico Drops Several States Including Texas

[The Annoyed Man]

First, do any of y'all know if there is a New Mexico gun forum? I can't find one.

When it comes to concealed carry, is there a difference between having a gun in a holster on my body and having it in a locked container in my possession? As far as I know, there is no difference in Texas, but is there in New Mexico? I will be flying into the Albuquerque airport, taking a shuttle, and checking the container into a safe.

I have been unable to find a New Mexico specific gun forum either, but I have found lots of references on various "national" level forums like at "concealedcarry.com" and so on.

I was actually (favorably) surprised that Texas' MPA permitted on-body concealed carry inside the vehicle for non-CHL-holders when it passed.....suprised simply because it is the natural inclination of all governments to hem in the rights of the governed, and allowing on-body concealed carry under MPA inside a vehicle seemed like a pretty liberal (as in "liberty," not "leftist") interpretation of the rights of man for a governmental entity.....compared to other states' governmental entities.

But exactly because of this distinction, I would make sure to clarify that issue with regard to New Mexico law. Traveling with a firearm in the car may be restricted to off-body, and it wouldn't surprise me—given NM's leftist tendencies—if that were the intent of the law. As with most legislatures, rightly or wrongly, there is seldom ever any profit in flirting with legislative intent. That's the road that usually leads to further restrictions, not further liberties.

Although I have no intentions (yet) of traveling through NM any time through the rest of this year, I'm going to call the governor's office anyway and register my intent to NEVER travel through NM again until the situation is rectified.

[G.A. Heath]

I suspect that NM will claim that Texas issuing to under 21 military members, issuing to resident aliens, and no shooting requirement for some renewals is the bases for tossing aside our written agreement which had been in place since 2005. I am curious though, does our recognition of NM's license depend on the agreement being in place? If so I would hope that we unilaterally decide to recognize theirs.

For the record the NM DPS is not exactly Concealed Carry Friendly, they have a long history of doing everything they can to complicate things for licensees. The whole resident alien issue is something that has them tangled up in a recent lawsuit with the Second Amendment Foundation. When their license program started the NM DPS attempted to have training requirements that exceeded those of NM LEOs in some aspects, that got smacked down quickly, they have their "once concealed handgun" limit, and other backwards regulations designed to make it difficult for license holders.

[The Annoyed Man]

I suspect that NM will claim that Texas issuing to under 21 military members, issuing to resident aliens, and no shooting requirement for some renewals is the bases for tossing aside our written agreement which had been in place since 2005. I am curious though, does our recognition of NM's license depend on the agreement being in place? If so I would hope that we unilaterally decide to recognize theirs.

For the record the NM DPS is not exactly Concealed Carry Friendly, they have a long history of doing everything they can to complicate things for licensees. The whole resident alien issue is something that has them tangled up in a recent lawsuit with the Second Amendment Foundation. When their license program started the NM DPS attempted to have training requirements that exceeded those of NM LEOs in some aspects, that got smacked down quickly, they have their "once concealed handgun" limit, and other backwards regulations designed to make it difficult for license holders.

Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't Texas have a number of unilateral reciprocities with other states? My guess is that Gov. Perry would not engage in a tit-for-tat exchange of decertifications like that. Also, I agree that it would be wise not to decertify NM (or any other state that does this), because we want to be known as a respecter of the fundamental rights of man regardless of other states' refusal to do so.

[G.A. Heath]

I suspect that NM will claim that Texas issuing to under 21 military members, issuing to resident aliens, and no shooting requirement for some renewals is the bases for tossing aside our written agreement which had been in place since 2005. I am curious though, does our recognition of NM's license depend on the agreement being in place? If so I would hope that we unilaterally decide to recognize theirs.

For the record the NM DPS is not exactly Concealed Carry Friendly, they have a long history of doing everything they can to complicate things for licensees. The whole resident alien issue is something that has them tangled up in a recent lawsuit with the Second Amendment Foundation. When their license program started the NM DPS attempted to have training requirements that exceeded those of NM LEOs in some aspects, that got smacked down quickly, they have their "once concealed handgun" limit, and other backwards regulations designed to make it difficult for license holders.

Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't Texas have a number of unilateral reciprocities with other states? My guess is that Gov. Perry would not engage in a tit-for-tat exchange of decertifications like that. Also, I agree that it would be wise not to decertify NM (or any other state that does this), because we want to be known as a respecter of the fundamental rights of man regardless of other states' refusal to do so.

I agree on this, however if our reciprocity agreement we had since 2005 has a clause that our recognition of their license is dependent on the agreement remaining in place then NM residents may have an issue. If there is such an issue then I would hope we unilaterally recognize their license ASAP.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Please see the call-to-action I posted in a separate thread. If we want reciprocity with New Mexico, it's going to be up to Texans to get the job done. It's highly unlikely that it will be fixed in the New Mexico Legislature.

Chas.

[AggieMM]

Wow, that is very unfortunate. Guess I need to update the map.

Ryan

[Kabong30]

Super annoyed by this and will be calling the Governor, AG, and DPS at lunch time today. I'm traveling to Tucson this November and have no choice but to travel through the state, but we normally stop in Las Cruces for the night and it looks like we'll be pushing through this time. :( Certainly no roadside attractions this time through.

[karder]

Extremely disappointing. I do a lot of hiking/camping/motorcycling in New Mexico. I will shift those activities to Utah. Further distance to travel, but worth it.

[texas-sig]

Guess we won't be taking the kids to Albuquerque zoo, Ruidoso, or to Carlsbad. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

[Sidro]

The following was found in the New Mexico reciprocity agreements.

For example, if New Mexico currently has a reciprocity agreement with a particular state that allows individuals under age 21, non-citizens, and/or individuals convicted of violent crimes to obtain a concealed carry permit, then NM DPS will work to adjust the reciprocity agreement to clarify to that state’s permit holders that they can carry a concealed weapon in New Mexico so long as they are a U.S. Citizen, over 21 years of age, and not convicted of disqualifying violent crimes.procity agreements.

Does this mean that some residents of Texas will still be able to carry concealed but not all?

[speedsix]

...I didn't find that information...could you cite a link???

[RHenriksen]

Could you post a link to this info, please?

The following was found in the New Mexico reciprocity agreements.

For example, if New Mexico currently has a reciprocity agreement with a particular state that allows individuals under age 21, non-citizens, and/or individuals convicted of violent crimes to obtain a concealed carry permit, then NM DPS will work to adjust the reciprocity agreement to clarify to that state’s permit holders that they can carry a concealed weapon in New Mexico so long as they are a U.S. Citizen, over 21 years of age, and not convicted of disqualifying violent crimes.procity agreements.

Does this mean that some residents of Texas will still be able to carry concealed but not all?

[mgood]

First, do any of y'all know if there is a New Mexico gun forum? I can't find one.

When it comes to concealed carry, is there a difference between having a gun in a holster on my body and having it in a locked container in my possession? As far as I know, there is no difference in Texas, but is there in New Mexico? I will be flying into the Albuquerque airport, taking a shuttle, and checking the container into a safe.

I have been unable to find a New Mexico specific gun forum either, but I have found lots of references on various "national" level forums like at "concealedcarry.com" and so on.

I was actually (favorably) surprised that Texas' MPA permitted on-body concealed carry inside the vehicle for non-CHL-holders when it passed.....suprised simply because it is the natural inclination of all governments to hem in the rights of the governed, and allowing on-body concealed carry under MPA inside a vehicle seemed like a pretty liberal (as in "liberty," not "leftist") interpretation of the rights of man for a governmental entity.....compared to other states' governmental entities.

But exactly because of this distinction, I would make sure to clarify that issue with regard to New Mexico law. Traveling with a firearm in the car may be restricted to off-body, and it wouldn't surprise me—given NM's leftist tendencies—if that were the intent of the law. As with most legislatures, rightly or wrongly, there is seldom ever any profit in flirting with legislative intent. That's the road that usually leads to further restrictions, not further liberties.

Although I have no intentions (yet) of traveling through NM any time through the rest of this year, I'm going to call the governor's office anyway and register my intent to NEVER travel through NM again until the situation is rectified.

No restrictions (to the best of my knowledge) on how you carry inside your vehicle in NM. (I don't mean waving it around while you drive, I mean whether it's on you or somewhere else in the vehicle.)
I am not a lawyer.
I did spend 10 months working in a gun store in Hobbs, NM where we daily discussed firearms laws. Many of our regulars who took part in such discussions included LEOs, retired LEOs, lawyers, and NM instructors.




While looking for something else, I found this on the New Mexico DPS website:
http://www.dps.nm.org/index.php/nm-conc ... greements/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Important – Please Read

In response to several inquiries, it is important to clarify information relating to the Department of Public Safety’s audit of other states’ concealed carry statutes.

First, it is important to note that the Department of Public Safety has not made final decisions to change reciprocity agreements or recognition of other states, but rather DPS is conducting an audit of those statutes to ensure compliance with New Mexico state law.

The information on this web page differentiates those states that have concealed carry laws that are substantially similar to New Mexico’s law (or more stringent) from those that do not. For those states that have had reciprocity agreements with New Mexico, but do not now have a similar law to ours, NM DPS will contact those states to clarify which permit holders from that state are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon in New Mexico. This will not affect the vast majority of permit holders in states with current reciprocity agreements.

For example, if New Mexico currently has a reciprocity agreement with a particular state that allows individuals under age 21, non-citizens, and/or individuals convicted of violent crimes to obtain a concealed carry permit, then NM DPS will work to adjust the reciprocity agreement to clarify to that state’s permit holders that they can carry a concealed weapon in New Mexico so long as they are a U.S. Citizen, over 21 years of age, and not convicted of disqualifying violent crimes.

So this may not really be an issue for most of us after all.

[iom]

There is no question that the NM DPS site has been updated since yesterday. It appears that as of today we ( Texas ), are back on the reciprocity list.

http://www.dps.nm.org/index.php/nm-conc ... greements/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the site:
New Mexico currently recognizes concealed carry permits from or has reciprocal agreements with the following states: Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia and West Virginia.

Interesting turn of events.

David

[RHenriksen]

Thanks - on the URL (http://www.dps.nm.org/index.php/nm-conc ... greements/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), they do list Texas as having reciprocity with N.M. as of May 1, 2012:

"As we continue our audit and make changes accordingly, this page will be updated to reflect the most current information. This information is current as of May 1, 2012

New Mexico currently recognizes concealed carry permits from or has reciprocal agreements with the following states: Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia and West Virginia."

edit: Man, somebody beat me to the punch AGAIN!